AJ hand played passively

[Lunkan]

UTG+1 is very loose passive. Seen most flops and no preflop raises. (About 10 hands played with him when this hand took place)

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) wildhorses13 is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">wildhorses13 raises</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.5SB, 4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">wildhorses13 bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, wildhorses13 calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.75BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, wildhorses13 calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.75BB

The donkbet from a passive player made me a bit scared and I decided to only call down from there. Too weak?

[fabadam]

(grunch)

The turn donkbet is indeed weird. Possibilities:
(1) He slowplayed a set.
(2) He has JT
(3) He has Qdxd
(4) He has Ax and thinks TP must be gold. Or he has A4.
(5) some weird bluff

All in all, it becomes a WA/WB situation, and I think calling down is OK, and a fold is not much worse.

[Reaction]

[ QUOTE ]
(grunch)

The turn donkbet is indeed weird. Possibilities:
(1) He slowplayed a set.
(2) He has JT
(3) He has Qdxd
(4) He has Ax and thinks TP must be gold. Or he has A4.
(5) some weird bluff

All in all, it becomes a WA/WB situation, and I think calling down is OK, and a fold is not much worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not convinced that this is a WA/WB but if it were, this makes no sense. If you have 90% equity to half of villain’s range and 10% equity against the other half (i.e. going to win 50%) and the pot is offering 6.75:2 then folding is clearly wrong. In addition, using the range you gave does not support this being a WA/WB situation (the T9 is the “weird bluff”):

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

6,732 games 0.005 secs 1,346,400 games/sec

Board: Qs Kd 4c Ad
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 62.5891 % 55.15% 07.43% { AcJc }
Hand 2: 37.4109 % 29.98% 07.43% { KK-QQ, 44, A2s+, Q2s+, JTs, T9s, A2o+, JTo, T9o }

To the OP,

I would through a raise in somewhere. The river ended up being the best place, but you had no way of knowing that on the turn.

[NIX]

I don't think I'd c-bet this flop myself.

[Lunkan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I'd c-bet this flop myself.

[/ QUOTE ]
- I could have the best hand
- A better hand may fold
- I have a gutshot, backdoor flush and straight draw and an overcard
- A bet could buy me a free card on the turn
- No aggressive opponents at the table made it quite unlikely I was going to get checkraised (maybe didn't include that read in OP)

Given the above I reasoned that a bet was correct, am I wrong?

[Christian_Peters]

I agree. I think you should definitely bet here when checked to. But I'm n00b, so take it for what it's worth.

[NIX]

I don't think the c-bet is necessarily wrong, I'd just be happier to check here. Now knowing that the table is passive meaning we have a pretty good chance at getting a free card, that makes me like the bet a little more. But still, with three opponents, I can see a reasonable chance that someone has made something and would just call down if not check-raise us. I don't think we'll fold the field and in the times we are called, I don't like where we stand since there is only one reasonable draw there (JT). Two opponents, I bet this every time though.

[fabadam]

Yes, Ax is the majority of the range in the examples I named, but I think you'd have to discount it somewhat -- villain will not bet with it ALL the time, which he will with the made hands.

Still, your PokerStove test comes out very good for us indeed. Basically, you have to guess how often he's doing this with Ax, and act accordingly.

[freedom18]

i like it except if there were more people behind you definately raise to protect your hand, otherwise perfectly played

[Smurph64]

*grunch*

I would have raised the donk bet on the turn myself but likely that player just hit two pair or the straight and so calling is applicable. I want to see the final holding myself in this situation to know if he donks the nuts or less.

Players like these continue to do the same thing against a one player, betting their cards when they think or know they have the win and calling down otherwise.

Any future leading out from them is a sign of strength and you never really need to worry about a check raise in the future.