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#62
03-27-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
I am not justin so my gnomes NEVER sat at the same table, waiting to devour a new player. I would go to my friend's house and play while they were at work. [/ QUOTE ] this is not cheating. however, gnome-whores like you make my bonus sub-optimal. 
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#63
03-27-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
Hillarious. My point was to show that people think of cheating as different things, so to blindly ask if anyone has cheated before, it would be nice to have some sort of common ground.
The obvious (mechanics grip, aces up sleeve, multi-accounting same tourney, sharing cards with people at the table) are very obvious. The borderline things, like HUDS and datamining, or even a guy not protecting his hole cards and giving you a free peak, are borderline. I know that if I sit down in real life with a group of players, I cannot have something automatically track all my hands and all my opponents hands. I can keep notes, I can use my memory, but that is somewhat different as to what PokerTracker does. These stats are not projected on the table next to each player automatically for me either in real life, again I have to use my manual notes or my memory. And I obviously can't have something automatically track all the players sitting at a table across the room in case I meet up with them in the future. I can see how people could consider this cheating. I can see how people do not. It is not clear cut. There is a very wide gray area here. Since Party allows Pokertracker and PokerAce, I use them both and do not consider them cheating. I rationalize using them as keeping up with the Jones's, and I enjoy the small edge that using them both gives me. Datamining is very very very borderline to me, and I was really curious as to what others thought.
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#64
03-27-2006, 02:03 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
I voted yes because what I use is probably cheating in a site's T&C (PT+HUD) but I don't consider using them cheating. *shrugs*
To me cheating is botting, colluding, multi-accounting the same table / tourney.
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#65
03-27-2006, 02:17 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
Can this post be added to the FAQ?
Brilliant. The Lemon (who never posts, but had to here)
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#67
03-27-2006, 03:02 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
Hillarious. My point was to show that people think of cheating as different things, so to blindly ask if anyone has cheated before, it would be nice to have some sort of common ground. The obvious (mechanics grip, aces up sleeve, multi-accounting same tourney, sharing cards with people at the table) are very obvious. The borderline things, like HUDS and datamining, or even a guy not protecting his hole cards and giving you a free peak, are borderline. I know that if I sit down in real life with a group of players, I cannot have something automatically track all my hands and all my opponents hands. I can keep notes, I can use my memory, but that is somewhat different as to what PokerTracker does. These stats are not projected on the table next to each player automatically for me either in real life, again I have to use my manual notes or my memory. And I obviously can't have something automatically track all the players sitting at a table across the room in case I meet up with them in the future. I can see how people could consider this cheating. I can see how people do not. It is not clear cut. There is a very wide gray area here. Since Party allows Pokertracker and PokerAce, I use them both and do not consider them cheating. I rationalize using them as keeping up with the Jones's, and I enjoy the small edge that using them both gives me. Datamining is very very very borderline to me, and I was really curious as to what others thought. [/ QUOTE ] All HUD does is allow you to play more tables. A decent player isn't going to become an amazing player just because of HUD: you still have to know how to adjust your level of play to fit your opponent and anyone who knows how to do this could probably still be a winning player with less tables. I don't think it's cheating unless you consider being able to add more tables cheating.
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#68
03-27-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
[ QUOTE ]
The 20% figure is disturbing. I really thought it would be lower. [/ QUOTE ] I am also surprised at how high it is. I'm hoping that a lot of people are checking 'yes' because they use PT, PAHUD, or have an unmentionable deal/multiple accounts and consider those things to be cheating. If I honestly thought I was being colluded against this often, I wouldn't play online poker.
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#69
03-27-2006, 03:10 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
I have done many things that others would consider cheating.
I don't believe I have cheated however. Whether or not that makes a difference I'm not sure. Things I have done that others might consider cheating: - pokertracker - GT+ and/or pokerace HUD - rake-back against site's T&C's - closing account to set up new one for RB - letting clock run-down in tournament near bubble (particularly when other tables are stalling also) The last one is different (imo) than encouraging others at your table to stall also. I believe that 'team-play' at the tables to try to help everyone get past the bubble is inappropriate and/or cheating. But doing it on your own without saying anything is not. This is just my opinion on that matter and I believe many people would say that I cross the line into 'cheating' just by stalling (even without saying anything about it or encouraging others to do same). I have never multi-accounted at the same tourney/table or colluded with a friend (sharing hole-cards and what-not) or used a bot or anything like that which I would put in the 'definitely cheating' category.
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#70
03-27-2006, 03:42 PM
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Re: Cheating Poll:
About stalling near the bubble, I started letting the clock run once in a MTT but felt guilty and acted before my time was totally out. I emailed Stars support to ask them about it and they said it was perfectly fine to do. So if you define cheating by what the site explicitly does and does not allow, stalling is not cheating.
I'd also like to add that Stars lists PT and PAHUD as acceptable programs on their prohibited programs page, so I do not consider either of those cheating.
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