2-4 Online - BB with TT

[threeducks]

Ah yes, but you see it is safer to post and get advice (corrective criticism) than it is to actually take a position on a post and then get it wrong. I might learn more but I also might [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] myself. Thick skin or no. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

But, that is once again good advice.

I read all the posts. Just do not reply to many. I do not feel that I have much to offer since I lose more than I win.

Thanks

Edit - BTW, I love to post hands and get advice. I just need to make sure that I take the advice that I am given else I might wear out my welcome. I read the books but I have no one to discuss poker with. It is only fair that I reciprocate and share any knowledge that I have - problem is that do not have any expertise to share.

That is unless you have a DB2 question? Or want a recommendation on a good Cab wine from Napa?

[Mitke]

* grunch *

Preflop is good.

Flop bet/3-bet is good. There's many overcards that can hurt you and the Villain could be raising for a free card or testing if you really have a hand on that relatively ragged flop. You have to protect your hand here. If he caps you can peel one and fold on the turn relatively safely without fear of folding the best hand.

Turn. You then give him the free card when the baord gets more SDs. Bad. As you said bet/fold is good here. It's not that big a pot and if he's willing to raise you on the turn you probably have very few outs. So you can fold to raise here relatively safely. Giving a free card is bad though. You need to bet this turn.

River. Hmm. It's a blank that's for sure. If you were willing to fold on the turn you should at least fold to the raise. You are only beating a bluff with a busted draw. With 2nd pair I'd c/c this river to let (especially aggressive) villains to bluff their busted draws and avoid a raise from Queens that I'd probably have to call getting 8:1.

[threeducks]

Playing the flop and turn OOP, as in this hand, takes some experience, which I am working on.

Say that I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB and MP raises, I call. We are HU.

Flop is 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 5.5 sb)

I hit the King, I have a choice here.

If I bet and raises me does that mean that he has me beat? Live low limit most often yes, online not necessarily.

If I check/raise I am investing 2 bets with a poor kicker. He may not believe me and either call me or raise me. Thus if I am behind then I lose more.

If I check and call I am giving a cheap card to naked Aces (3 outs) ATs+, AJ+ and I have no information. But this is the safe route?

First in what is his range of hands? TT+, AJ+, ATs+, KJs+

AA, KK, AK, KQ, KJ have me in trouble and drawing to 3 outs. Other hands I have him drawing to 2-3 outs (AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, TT)

I have a hard determining if I am WA/WB when OOP, here I think that it qualifies. But it is more important to play WA/WB in position since you do not want to bet the turn and get raised.

So how to proceed.

Say I bet and he raises me. Do I three bet or call? I think that folding is too weak at this point.

Option 1: I call and lead the turn. This option does not give a free card to the 2-3 outs but does set me up for a raise if I am behind and will fold worse hands if he is bluffing.

Option 2: I check the turn with the intent of calling a bet. If he checks behind then he has a free shot at catching a card to beat me.

The other day we said that with TT it was silly to 3-bet and then check. Today with K-T vs a possible better hand it is likewise silly to 3-bet and then check the turn.

So, if I 3-bet then I need to lead the turn.

So, here I think the best line is to bet and call a raise.

We can discuss turn options after I get a review of my logic here.

Thanks

[TheCount212]

This is live advice.

Just bet/call the flop if you're raised. If you get raised it's probably AK/KQ. Why even consider 3betting this? This is exactly the type of "overthinking" and overaggressiveness that, judging by your posts, gets you into trouble on a near-continuous basis LOL ..

Villain raised PF and you called. If he raises you on the flop you would be spitting into the wind by reraising. How many times would you need to be raised in order to slow down here?

Now, if an A were to turn you could consider going for a c/r to see if you scare him off. But the safer play is just to c/c it down and hope he was getting cute with 65s.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]


Say that I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB and MP raises, I call. We are HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/c or c/r are both options on this flop. it depends who you're playing against.

i would never donk this flop with anything. as a general rule i dont donk into pfr's when HU.

[TheCount212]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Say that I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB and MP raises, I call. We are HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/c or c/r are both options on this flop. it depends who you're playing against.

i would never donk this flop with anything. as a general rule i dont donk into pfr's when HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

[threeducks]

Okay - I had no intention of 3-betting. Just mentioned that for completeness.

So a better line is to c/c or ck/r not donk.

[ QUOTE ]
So, to learn from this post. When you are OOP and you are raised, either you limped or you are BB. You have called. The general rule is to check the flop. Let the PFR act. If you think that you have a better hand then you could call or raise. But don't donk HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks - I bet the flop and he raised, I called.

The turn is a 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] pairing the board and putting a 2 flush.

My plan is to check and see what he does?

[threeducks]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Per advice I used the check and raise strategy. I do not have any read on this player - the few hands (82) he is 28% vp$ip and pfr 17%. I saw 8 hands with him and the only strange one was he raised with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

[TheCount212]

I like it. c/r the nut flush draw an excellent use of aggression. Looks like you both missed your flush.

[threeducks]

Thanks - yes, we missed our flushes and he missed his King [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])