My tax story

[moondogg]

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Slanksy says its all one session
I dont use PT at most sites I play.
I dont think its good to constantly be worried if youre up or down for the session. It produces bad play. I like to let things handle themselves knowing in the long run I win. And the IRS has never defined what a session is. If I deposit on Monday and withdraw on Thursaday from a site thats a session.

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You realize that your opinion (or Sklansky's) on what constitues a session has absolutely no affect on your taxes, right?

I know that the IRS has not clearly defined what a session is, but they've given some indicators of (like saying to keep track of your table number in your journal).

I find it amazing that people thing the IRS cares what their rationalizations are. As if they are actually going to sit down, listen to your arguement, and say "golly, I never thought of it like that, I guess your right."

[PuertoKid]

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Help me out here. How many recreational players who had a decent year at the local casino and won $8k would ever mention it? Why is this different?

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Because online is easily traceable.

[Jimbo]

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the IRS has clearly defined a session and it is not one day. It is every time you change tables (in a B&M).

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The IRS has not clearly defined a session, and it is certainly not every time you change tables.

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If you wish to argue semantics you are correct, the IRS does not use the word session as we do. If you want the actual application go to IRS Publication 529 page 12 and read.

The pertinent portion is where the IRS offers accepted guidelines for establishing your wins and losses. At poker you provide the table number on which you played. Your required diary must include the date and type of your gambling activity, the amounts you won/lost as well as the name and address of your location among other requirements. Combining these two portions brings you to the practical application that establishes each period of time at a specific table as what we like to call a session.

Naturally I am not qualified to offer tax advice but Russ Fox is and I believe he has come to the same conclusion.


Jimbo

[broiler]

Russ Fox does not believe that each table is a session from the link to his article that he posted in this topic. In the third and fourth paragraph from the bottom of his article, he gives an example of playing multiple tables at the same time. His analysis is that time spent at different tables of the same game and limit constitute a single session as long as your play is simultaneous and continuous.

The impact for a player that multitables the same limit and game would effectively be one session for each time that you sit at the computer until you get up from the computer. His example seems pretty clear from that article, but my interpretation of the sit down to stand up may be a reach.

[cardcounter0]

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Your required diary must include the date and type of your gambling activity, the amounts you won/lost as well as the name and address of your location among other requirements.

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Yes, that is it. Date - Type - Amount - Location. That is what is required. It then suggests that noting table numbers, name of Pit Boss, other players, reciepts for comps, etc. can be used to back up the facts in the diary.

Using your logic, if the floor changes then it is a new session. It suggests keeping the name of the pit boss just like the table number, doesn't it? Dealer change? New session. One of the players change? New session. (it suggests keeping names of who you played with just like the table number). SO if changing tables is enough to create a new session, then so would a change in floor, dealers, and players.

You might look up the word "Session" in the dictionary. It mentions nothing about changing tables. Since the IRS does not provide a legal definition of the word "Session", it is reasonable to rely on a dictionary definition of one.

[octop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Slanksy says its all one session
I dont use PT at most sites I play.
I dont think its good to constantly be worried if youre up or down for the session. It produces bad play. I like to let things handle themselves knowing in the long run I win. And the IRS has never defined what a session is. If I deposit on Monday and withdraw on Thursaday from a site thats a session.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize that your opinion (or Sklansky's) on what constitues a session has absolutely no affect on your taxes, right?

I know that the IRS has not clearly defined what a session is, but they've given some indicators of (like saying to keep track of your table number in your journal).

I find it amazing that people thing the IRS cares what their rationalizations are. As if they are actually going to sit down, listen to your arguement, and say "golly, I never thought of it like that, I guess your right."

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt say they cared what I thought. They havent clearly defined a session.Being short term results oriented is bad for my play.If I play bad I don't make money and don't have anything to pay taxes on.
The IRS has NOT defined a session. Who the [censored] writes down table numbers when they are playing drunken blackjack?Im paying my taxes and making a good faith effort to do so. But when Im 8 tabling Im not writing down every transaction I make at each table and Im generally playing where PT doesnt work.

[chief444]

I think most people who have gone through this in any detail have already read that section. And it's anything but clear on where to draw the line for what we call a session. The diary requirements listed actually to me indicate that daily is fine. That is what I have used. The table number is listed under proof of winnings and losses which is "other documentation" to be used as proof in addition to the diary.

And if you read the link above it appears Russ Fox has come to a different conclusion than you.

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think most people who have gone through this in any detail have already read that section. And it's anything but clear on where to draw the line for what we call a session. The diary requirements listed actually to me indicate that daily is fine. That is what I have used. The table number is listed under proof of winnings and losses which is "other documentation" to be used as proof in addition to the diary.

And if you read the link above it appears Russ Fox has come to a different conclusion than you.

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Sorry that I wasn't perfectly clear above (although I thought it was quite clear if you read it carefully), I was referring to a B&M session and yes Mr. Fox does indeed agree with my interpretation as it applied to my post. Now since the online portion is obviously not defined it becomes to each his own.

I just hope someone here is audited and takes their challenge to tax court for an opinion. I suppose one of us could request a private letter tax ruling, that wouldn't help everyone but would be a beginning.

Jimbo