Satellite- No idea how to play this spot

[zalkin]

Agree with the last couple of comments. Why risk it with a shove against maybe a PP or another race.

[Kimbell175113]

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Agree with the last couple of comments. Why risk it with a shove against maybe a PP or another race.

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Good question. Let's make the other guy answer it.

[icemanjmw]

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Agree with the last couple of comments. Why risk it with a shove against maybe a PP or another race.

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Good question. Let's make the other guy answer it.

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Perfectly stated. I'm guessing we pick this up over half the time without a fight, and if not I'm willing to race here since winning a flip versus another big stack almost certainly guarantees you a spot. If we run into AA here so be it.

[donquay]

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Agree with the last couple of comments. Why risk it with a shove against maybe a PP or another race.

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Good question. Let's make the other guy answer it.

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brilliant way to put it.

[Cleverbeans]

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Agree with the last couple of comments. Why risk it with a shove against maybe a PP or another race.

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I can think of a few reasons,

1) We're out of position, so taking the pot down now is a good result.

2) We have fold equity, so smaller pairs often lay down, we know it will likely be a race if we're called. More so, we're up against such a large range from a raise on the button we should expect a fold most of the time.

3) We have a strong hand - AK is a good hand and we should be trying to get more money into the pot with it, however it's also a drawing hand, so seeing all five cards is good.

4) A shove is good for image - you're less likely to face steals in the future since your opponents will have to wonder if you'll go over the top on them. Players who call OOP then fold to a c-bet on dry flops are a gold mine.

[21times20]

i really thought this thread was over after the first couple responses, but in case anyone is confused by the conflicting advice, you should be shoving here pretty much every single time, if you aren't shoving you should be folding because you are either convinced you can fold into a seat or because the guy who raised has a vpip less than 5%

the guy who originally suggested calling said that you need to treat your chips like a precious commodity and this is exactly why you can't afford to be throwing them away by just calling here

AK facing a lone button raiser is an excellent opportunity to pick up chips and it is highly unlikely you will get into a better situation at any point in the future, the best way to collect these chips is to go all in and watch your opponent fold, if your opponent does call and you end up in a race he is the one who made a mistake, not you

[LottaNirvana]

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i really thought this thread was over after the first couple responses, but in case anyone is confused by the conflicting advice, you should be shoving here pretty much every single time, if you aren't shoving you should be folding because you are either convinced you can fold into a seat or because the guy who raised has a vpip less than 5%

the guy who originally suggested calling said that you need to treat your chips like a precious commodity and this is exactly why you can't afford to be throwing them away by just calling here

AK facing a lone button raiser is an excellent opportunity to pick up chips and it is highly unlikely you will get into a better situation at any point in the future, the best way to collect these chips is to go all in and watch your opponent fold, if your opponent does call and you end up in a race he is the one who made a mistake, not you

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Your points are all very good.

Obviously, everyone here is stating their views without some crucial information.

We don't Know the vp$ip's (or other stats) of anyone else at the table.
We also don't know the "feel" of the table.

But let's think about this.
The blinds are 100/200.
(we don't know when they're going up again...)
Hero has close to t9000
AK, out of position, 10 players left, yes... in any normal tourney, I'd agree with a shove.

Even in this case, if his M was less than 10... Shove.

Against a "Lone Button Raiser", a shove would probably result in a fold. But....
IF it got called, chances are you'd be putting you’re entire tourney at risk for what would likely be a something close to 50/50. When you're that close to a win, it would be a shame to give it up if you didn't have to.

Sure AK is an incredible hand heads up, but the blind pressure isn't enough to make this a "Must Shove"

He doesn't have enough for a "scare" re-raise" so that is out.

what about folding?

We all agree that you can't just fold into a win.

If the raise was say, t2000 or so, than it would be a "Shove or Fold" situation,
In THAT case, I would shove. but I would've been forced into it. (and the bigger raise may have meant a bigger hand)

But In THIS case, the t800 raise gives you a choice.

A call would give you options.

You can see the flop and, as one of the other posters said, "Just Play Poker"
If you do have to let it go, you still have a good chance of making it to the seat.

I agree with your comment about table image, but if you don't have the image you want by this point, then something’s wrong. (I know there may be mostly new players at a final table. But, even so, why get so close, just to lose a race while trying to establish image.)

Also, if you do hit the flop, your hand may be disguised enough by the call, to get someone with a draw or middle pair to put all of their chips in the pot.

Once again, this is a Sat. If we end up with just t40 by the time the 5th player goes out, great.

It seems like most of the time, when anyone asks what to do on this forum, no matter what the question, most replies say "Shove ! "

I still think that this is one case where shoving wouldn't be the wrong move, but it wouldn't necessarily be the right move either. And playing LESS aggressively, would probably give you the best chance to win a seat.

[Dalek]

I agree with shoving. You show people they shouldn't try to steal much. Most of the time you'll win the pot immediately or be in a race. The big raise on the button seems like a steal more than a raise that wants a call but i couldn't be sure unless i'd played with the guy.

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

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Another reason to shove is, that you show strength in defending your blind. If he folds - most likely he will fold - he will attack your BB with more care.

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[LottaNirvana]

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I agree with shoving. You show people they shouldn't try to steal much. Most of the time you'll win the pot immediately or be in a race. The big raise on the button seems like a steal more than a raise that wants a call but i couldn't be sure unless i'd played with the guy.

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Well the reason I favor calling here is that, while you may not quite be to the point of folding your way in, you are getting close.

When it gets to the actual bubble, in HOH vol 2 it says to consider folding Aces preflop .
I know that we're not there yet, but as it gets closer, you should start heading in that direction.
So what would normally be a shove, might not be so obvious anymore.

Yes I agree a 4xBB raise from the button sounds like a steal attempt,
but why risk it? in this case it is not necessary.
At least if you see a flop for t800 you can then decide.

I'm not saying that to shove would be WRONG, but if you shove and lose, it would sure feel that way.