1/2 - Big draw (quote unquote)

[gimmetheloot]

[ QUOTE ]
With the range you have put him on you have to get the bet out of him here. You don't want to see a brick on the river because this may end up with him folding to your potential river bet.

I have more thoughts on it, I'll probably post again later.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Frank Catalani]

Loot are you criticizing me with the quote or do you feel the same way?

My thoughts revolved around the different ranges he may have had other than just what hero put him on. Against the current range my above statement still stands, plus you're 85% equity against this range on the turn...even against a tighter range your equity doesn't change that much. Therefore mathematically and based on your range a bet on the turn is the correct play.

[pepper123]

Frank -

I'm just estimating a range there. Like I said, this guy is aggro. He's betting sets, 2 pair, pair+fd, KQ, AA, KK, AK ESPECIALLY on this flop. So I think the crux of the question is... what does a very aggressive player check/call on this flop? He's not check/calling with 76cc.

He's gotta have a hand with a little bit of value and maybe a weak draw.

If anyone disagrees with me i'd love to hear it.


SO then the question is what is the best way to get one more street of value here. if i'm ahead (and i always am) he has 9 outs with AJ and 1 out with 99.

i mean, yeah it's easy to say "bet here" but are we really getting the most value out of our hand? if i really cared i would go dig up ten threads where it goes check/check on this turn and a 1/2 pot bet gets fired on the river and everyone says to call with any piece. especially here, if the river comes a blank deuce and i bet half pot i htink he has to call with his weak range.

i'd love to hear where i'm wrong though.

[loosbastard]

I play anywhere from 20/17 to 30/25 and this is a fold PF for me. 3-betting isn't terrible against this particular opponent...but folding > calling IMO.

Oh and bet/call turn.

[Chaos_ult]

The reason to bet the turn is because his calling range on the turn is generally going to be much wider than his betting range on the river(not to mention the fact that betting the turn inflates the pot for the times you happen to hit a card that helps you and also helps villain. Like the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]).

[gimmetheloot]

Frank, people usually use the quote function like that when what they had to say has already been said by another poster.

I think your post was pretty spot on and agreed fully.

definitely looking forward to seeing more of your posts in the future.

[Frank Catalani]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason to bet the turn is because his calling range on the turn is generally going to be much wider than his betting range on the river(not to mention the fact that betting the turn inflates the pot for the times you happen to hit a card that helps you and also helps villain. Like the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]).

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point, I noted earlier that the 4 of hearts would look like a harmless card to villain since hero bet on the flop.

[Frank Catalani]

[ QUOTE ]
Frank -

I'm just estimating a range there. Like I said, this guy is aggro. He's betting sets, 2 pair, pair+fd, KQ, AA, KK, AK ESPECIALLY on this flop. So I think the crux of the question is... what does a very aggressive player check/call on this flop? He's not check/calling with 76cc.

He's gotta have a hand with a little bit of value and maybe a weak draw.

If anyone disagrees with me i'd love to hear it.


SO then the question is what is the best way to get one more street of value here. if i'm ahead (and i always am) he has 9 outs with AJ and 1 out with 99.

i mean, yeah it's easy to say "bet here" but are we really getting the most value out of our hand? if i really cared i would go dig up ten threads where it goes check/check on this turn and a 1/2 pot bet gets fired on the river and everyone says to call with any piece. especially here, if the river comes a blank deuce and i bet half pot i htink he has to call with his weak range.

i'd love to hear where i'm wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think with villain's wider calling range on the turn here you can bet more than just 1/2 the pot. Plus it's always nice not to showdown your cards, haha. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[pepper123]

yeah i didn't consider building a pot for hitting my flush. that's a good point.

like i said i'm never worried about being behind here, just extracting the most.

i bet and he folded