QQ street by street

[orange]

man, that $6 really threw me off. i would generally just c/c a normal bet, but blah.

[As armas]

I agree with fishsticks here. This is a classic pot control situation. I would say we are probably ahead, but we have reverse implied odds here. When we are ahead, keeping the pot small maximizes our winnings because we keep lesser hands in there. If we are behind, lets not have it dawn on us before its too late. So exercise some caution and check/call. Inferring that we defenitely got him beat from his 6 flop bet is bad poker. You can lead 1/2-3/4th on turn planning to fold to a raise. If he calls, then check river and evaluate. Check calling turn, checking river/evaulate is fine too. After his turn call I expect villain to have jj, 99, 44 letting you hang yourself, or AA/KK hoping you dont have the set.

[ama0330]

The thing is that the flop bet could be to ensure a showdown but IMO thats a pretty good thing for us too in this spot

[ilya]

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grunch;

i check the flop; it's not an especially good one given that your opponent 3-bet preflop and given how deep you are i definitely don't want to build a pot OOP against a seemingly solid player. if he bets, i would call, planning to lead a non-ace flop and fold to a turn raise.

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Please tell me why this flop is a bad one for our hand?

And if it is bad, why are you leading a non Ace turn?

And if you don't want to bloat this pot, why are you leading anywhere in the hand?

And why are you so adamant on not playing this hand for calue, yet feeling good about turning it into a bluff?

Please make sense....

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I didn't say it was bad, I said it wasn't especially good. We're reasonably likely to have the best hand but certainly aren't getting anywhere near a stack's worth of action from any hand we beat. Our sole read on this opponent is that he has solid stats. While he may well be taking advantage of his position and the deep stacks to 3bet us light, he will also often just have a medium or big pair. With this flop, we're still behind AA and KK, but are now also behind JJ and 99, both of which very likely 3-bet preflop with these stacks. And what hands that we beat are gonna give us a lot of action. Maybe QT and T8, but they very possibly raise flop and put us in a very difficult spot.

I don't think leading the turn turns the hand into a bluff. I am betting for value against hands that would have given less/same total amount of action if I'd led flop. He can feel much more comfortable calling me down with a Jack if he's only got 2 streets worth of bets to worry about. I don't think I'm getting raised a lot by worse hands on the turn, after check/call/lead, do you disagree?

[Vince.]

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The thing is that the flop bet could be to ensure a showdown but IMO thats a pretty good thing for us too in this spot

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[jlocdog]

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jlocdog -

You make zero sense to me. You feel so strongly he's got air, so you want to RAISE? If he really has air, raising just folds it out and minimizes our win and screws us harder the times we run into the goods.

Also, if you think villain is just throwing out 6 there with AK/AQ unimproved on the flop with the intention to call a c/r then LOL.

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With his retard flop bet, I expect him to call with lots of hands that are infact air but may be viewed by a retard as still having value. That is/was my point. If that doesn't make sense to you then so be it.

I have already said that the flop bet was way too big and everybody seems to agree on that. Because orange already made it though, I advocated c/c the turn. Leading the turn pretty much commits us and at this point I agree villain rarely if ever shows up with air. He stilkl may bet the turn with hands like AJ,TT,AK but once we hit the river he will never bet those. So I c/c turn and c/f river unimproved.

There seems to be alot of contention on oranges flop play though. Many think it is an obvious c/c. My thinking goes...if we ever have the best hand AND want to gain value out of it then the flop is where that is going to happen. By the turn he will be more inclined to fold weaker and raise stronger whereas the flop he will still be calling with many weaker hands. So looking over this hand, I think I donk the flop and call any raise. then I c/c the turn and c/f the river. If he just calls the flop I still get in c/c mode as it may look like a typical stack-a-donk line and thus we get a turn checked through (allowing us to optimize on keeping the pot small). If the turn does infact get checked through, I am most like;ly value betting most rivers. Inj this hand I would most likely c/c river if bet is small enough and c/f to and PSB or close to it.

Hope I make sense now.....

[TDouble]

From your last post it looks like you shoved river............results?

[Bramsterdam]

4bet pre-flop. A 20/15 reraise on the button doesn't mean QQ+/AK, especially not 200BB deep!

Reraising pf gains the initiative in the hand, defines villains range and may win a decent sized pot without seeing a flop.

As played, I c/c down

[BigHef]

After he calls the flop c/r what's wrong with c/c turn and betting river if he checks behind.

This is such an annoying spot I don't see how check/calling 2-3 streets is far from the best way to play it

[mattak]

I like c/c flop (his bet screams induce to me) and maybe block the turn for 1/2 pot, fold to a raise.