What to do when a scarecard comes

[Newman30]

Good input from everyone.

I don't really think villain has a 9 on the turn after my raise on the flop, but ok is a possibility. It can only imagine A9 then.

And he is definetly not limbing with TT, JJ. An average limber has a small pair, a suited connector (althought it's not great to limb with - infact it's not great to limb at all, but that's another discussion) or middle cards, like JT or JQ maybe even 9T.

I can put him on more draws than Q’s and 9’s, therefore I still think its ok to bet the turn.

Check/folding is also good with me. Because it’s hard for me to bet the river under any circumstances, not matter what card it is. Maybe it’s better after all, it’s a close decision in my opinion.

Are you fore or against betting the turn pokerplayers out there?!

What do you mean by “why on earth are you playing online $1-2 NL?” AKQJ10?

[AKQJ10]

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I don't really think villain has a 9 on the turn after my raise on the flop, but ok is a possibility. It can only imagine A9 then.

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Then your imagination needs to be broader. Granted, this $1-2 game is probably substantially tighter than lower stakes and you might even have a read that this player only plays great starting hands, but I didn't see that read stated.

T9, 98, both suited or unsuited, even K9s are hands that get played a lot at small stakes, from any position. You're behind to all of them.

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And he is definetly not limbing with TT, JJ. An average limber has a small pair, a suited connector (althought it's not great to limb with - infact it's not great to limb at all, but that's another discussion) or middle cards, like JT or JQ maybe even 9T.

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Plenty of people limp JJ or TT. They're the types who hate to put money in with them because "overcards always flop" or "Those hands are so tough to play after the flop." You seem to assume that your opponent plays every hand as you would. That assumption will lose you a lot of money.

And of course he might have exactly what his flop bet represents, i.e. some kind of queen. People turn trips at times, believe it or not.

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I can put him on more draws than Q’s and 9’s, therefore I still think its ok to bet the turn.

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I don't dispute that draws are in Villain's range here, but your reasoning to exclude Qs, 9s, and pocket pairs is pretty dubious. It really sounds like you're in love with your hand and desperately trying to justify staying with it. Three pair, where the board paired above your top pair, is not a hand you ever want to fall in love with.

And I still don't think you get my point about RIO. Some hands (small pairs) will win a big pot when they hit or lose a small one when they miss. Your hand is the opposite. You're unlikely to win a big pot with queens and nines, six kicker. If the pot gets big, unless he's a compulsive bluffer, he likely has a much bigger hand. Your present hand is a bluff catcher, nothing more.

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What do you mean by “why on earth are you playing online $1-2 NL?” AKQJ10?

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You're asking for advice in the Beginners' forum, which is fine, I do the same. But presumably you're not an experienced NLHE veteran. You shouldn't be playing stakes as high as online $1-2 until you are.

[Newman30]

Let me first say that you are propably right about that I defend the hand to much, but I'm not in love with it, I can promise you that. And after all this I think your are right about checking the turn.

But I think you make a little too many assumptions about what I think (typical pokerplayers ;-)) They are good guesses, but never the less not entirely correct.

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Then your imagination needs to be broader.

T9, 98, both suited or unsuited, even K9s are hands that get played a lot at small stakes, from any position. You're behind to all of them.


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I know they get played, but there is a good chance that T9 and 98 gets folded to my repop on the flop.

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I don't dispute that draws are in Villain's range here, but your reasoning to exclude Qs, 9s


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I don't exclude them, I'm just saying that I see more draws in his range than Q's and 9's.

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You seem to assume that your opponent plays every hand as you would. That assumption will lose you a lot of money.


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I don't assume that.

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And I still don't think you get my point about RIO

I do get it, and it's a good argument.

I’m new to the forum. That’s why I’m asking at beginners. I’m definitely not a veteran, I have played a little over half a year. I have just moved up to NL200, and earned 11 BB/100 hands over my first 15K (NL200) hands in less than two weeks. It is going fine for now, but there is still a lot to learn.

BTW - thanks for your input.

[Newman30]

Ok - I [censored] the last quote a little up :-) hope you can read it.

[Albert Moulton]

c/f the river.

I just said "make a blocking bet" then re-read the OP and saw that the turn paired the Q.

I don't think you have much fold equity unless you bet a pretty good amount. And you might be up against a big hand. I don't see you winning here vs anything that bets that board on the end.

So, check/fold.

Also, FWIW, I prefer to lead in this position in unraised pots with hands like this and most draws. C/R seems a little fancy. I wouldn't fall in love with bottom two pair in an unraised pot because if the pot gets big, it's not much better than top pair compared to the range the others will show up with in a big pot (sets, top-2-pair, straights, etc.).

[Newman30]

Ok, I'm convinced about check/folding the turn the now.

Thanks for the input.

[Newman30]

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Also, FWIW, I prefer to lead in this position in unraised pots with hands like this and most draws.


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I normally lead in a situation like that because he has limbed - the c/r is a mixup of my game. I do not lead when he has raised.

Here is a bit about how I play oop, when I’m not the aggressor (I would like comments on this):
I checkraise if my opponent has raised preflop and I am oop, if he looks to eighter have hit the flop (and I have hit it harder, a set etc.) or if he will be bluffing with nothing, or semibluffing. If he does not look to have hit, I would be more inclined to lead. I am not too fond of betting into the preflop raiser if there is a good chance that he is going to c-bet. I seldom find myself oop and not the preflop aggressor, but I could be in that situation where I have called a raise with a small pair, or if I had to call a reraise.

I would normally lead on the flop oop, if I am the preflop aggressor (only when I have hit, and I’m very sure that I’m going to get a bet from my opponent.)

What do you think about this? What do you do when you are oop and not the preflop aggressor?

I am reading "Phil Gordon's Little Green Book" right now. He prefers to bet out if he is not the aggressor oop and has hit, and hopes to get raised.