live 6/12-TT fold to 3-bet on the flop? - Page 2

Frond · #11 08-06-2007, 11:08 AM

Had to recheck how many players & bets in when the flop came. 5 players capped=20 SBs minus a SB for rake is roughly 19 SBs, Risky Business bets the flop to make it 20:1 for OP to call with his 22:1 to hit a set, so I can see the Oliphant's idea of peeling one here getting really close to the odds we need.

BigBadBabar · #12 08-06-2007, 11:24 AM

i just don't see what raising the flop accomplishes, we are never ever ahead of anything at all, so even if he doesn't have aa/ak then he has kk-jj (before seeing him go nuts on the flop)

Frond · #13 08-06-2007, 11:40 AM

Agree. If we call the flop and get raised we calling I assume?

HoneyBadger · #14 08-06-2007, 12:21 PM

I'm against peeling this flop. If we just get raised that's pretty bad; being up against aces and hitting would be disastrous. I have to go with Rolf Slotboom here in disliking these set peels.

mrcunningham · #15 08-06-2007, 01:00 PM

Thanks everyone for the comments. Clearly I was displaying FPS on this hand, and needed to get spanked for it.

My thoughts at the time were that the PF raiser slumming from 15/30 would have a very wide range, the majority of which would not include an ace. Therefore, there was a reasonable chance that I was either ahead or that a raise on the flop might convince him to fold given that I had 3bet PF. In this situation, I figured my choices were to either fold given the players after me who might have an ace, or to raise hoping that I could get a small ace and the PF raiser to fold. I didn't think that the odds of hitting my set were great enough to simply call. The arguments in this post have convinced me that I probably should have mucked given my position and the presence of calling stations behind me.

Thanks,

Xhad · #16 08-06-2007, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Agree. If we call the flop and get raised we calling I assume?

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For one bet yes. The pot will be even bigger and it becomes even less likely that the PF capper has AA since that would mean he DIDN'T 3bet the flop in a pot this big.

ProfessorBen · #17 08-06-2007, 03:56 PM

Call for your backdoor straight/set outs. Putting him swuarely on AA is terrible when there are many more combinations of AK.

HoneyBadger · #18 08-06-2007, 03:59 PM

If you call the original bet, you must also call a subsequent raise. However, that does not mean the original call was correct.

Xhad · #19 08-06-2007, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call for your backdoor straight/set outs. Putting him swuarely on AA is terrible when there are many more combinations of AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with this statement as of villain's 3bet, folding to the first flop bet is fine simply because we are frequently paying 2 bets and the combination of AA + having to sometimes pay 2 bets on the flop swings it to an unprofitable call. I would certainly call closing the action though.