WSOP play along

[BobboFitos]

cawl

[adanthar]

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-all the big draws raise the flop against a "nit" (this is why i mention can he read hands cuz if he doesn't know [censored] but his cards, jam riv all day)

-why would a naked flush draw raise the turn here when someone donks 1/6 pot into them? and why to such a small amount? so we can call a 3bet? if so lol donkaments.

-MLG, go ahead and post the last hand where you raised the turn to that small of an amount with a naked flush draw.

I really can't recall any time i've seen a decent player play a flush draw like that (and if they did i'd prob reconsider their definition).

Nit led supersmall into us on two streets and we have top pair, I think a call on both streets is more prudent than a supersmall raise on the biggest blank in the deck.

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I'm not really sure what to say about this post other than 'all of it is bad'. listen to MLG.

[Bakes]

I guess i shouldn't be surprised, you don't post anything but crappy one liners anyway adanthar.

MLG - I agree that raise turn bluff river is a good line against a lot of w/t nits. However, I still think anyone who can read hands is going to see through this line especially if you overbet jam the river. It looks fishy to me.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i shouldn't be surprised, you don't post anything but crappy one liners anyway adanthar.

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You clearly haven't improved much recently bakes.

[MLG]

Bakes,
are you saying playing a flush draw this way is bad, or turning top pair into a bluff this way is bad? or both?

Are you saying you will always get looked up if a flush draw gets there, or that you will always get looked up if it misses, or both?

Which kind of player are you saying raising a flush draw is bad against, and which kind of player are you saying raising this hand is bad against?

[FGators]

Don't we expect to get pushed off our supposed "flush draw" on the turn if we raise it, in the chances this guy can't get away with top pair (solid kicker) or a set a decent % of the time where instead we'd just call and hope to hit...or bluff at a club river???

That's why I think we'd likely call the turn or raise the flop.


If we fire large at the river I think our hand looks more like a set of Queens than a flush.

[FGators]

Thinking more about it I guess its possible that we would raise the turn with a hand like AQclubs, KQ clubs,QJ clubs, 57 clubs, 87 clubs, 35 clubs,all very likely holdings for us raising in the cutoff.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i shouldn't be surprised, you don't post anything but crappy one liners anyway adanthar.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay fine:

[ QUOTE ]
Don't we expect to get pushed off our supposed "flush draw" on the turn if we raise it, in the chances this guy can't get away with top pair (solid kicker) or a set a decent % of the time where instead we'd just call and hope to hit...or bluff at a club river???

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villain is a 'standard older nit'. they're w/t PF, then switch to calling stationy on the flop, then, like clockwork, love to find big folds on the turn and river. anybody ever seen anything different come from old nits/I assume you're with me so far? hand reading doesn't even factor into it - they love putting you on hands they lose to for no apparent reason, whether you can reasonably have a flush or not.

okay, so much for that (and bakes, I'm fairly sure you agree with me thus far anyway.) now we get to 'you never take this line with AcKc'. umm, yeah I do. that's exactly how I play it vs. old nits live - I'm not ahead of their range enough to autoraise/jam the flop (look it up, it's true), but when he bets 1/4 pot on the turn, he's folding 'somewhere'. it's the freaking WSOP, home of the weakest tightest laydowns in poker history, so why am I calling him down with a flush draw when I can take the pot?

also, 'we have top pair' is a totally ridiculous statement to make. our top pair is arguably worse than 65 here, unless the nit picked this one time in a year to weak lead middle pair.

[Bakes]

Regarding getting looked up, I think with this action on the turn you need to tap him to get a fold on a flush river. I think many nits will also look you up with top pair a good amount of the time if you make a smaller vbet. Now we're in a situation where if we had a flush, we should bet small to maximize value but if we have a bluff, we have to bet big to maximize FE.

I guess my real beef with this hand is the turn raise size. The pot is huge, he's gonna look at all the money in there and call a lot.

Also, i'm not saying its not viable to play a flush draw in this way, its just that no one plays it like that.

Obv the best type of player to make this raise against is the lvl 1 thinking nit who releases one pair easily. Raising the turn this small against anyone who often snaps off plays and bluffs (for whatever reason) is suicide in my opinion. I'd much prefer a stronger raise on the turn than 8k, especially live when you might only be raising him 5 more chips.

Turning top pair into a bluff = fine with me in certain spots btw


Ugh this post is so long and drawn out, hope I didn't [censored] anything up.

[Ignacio Munoz]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i shouldn't be surprised, you don't post anything but crappy one liners anyway adanthar.

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lol. so true.