$400NL | weak Aces v suspected bluff

[AAismyfriend]

I hate the flop c/r.....I like c/cing flop and leading the turn waaaaayyyyy better. Also, he shows up with a set here like never and it's unlikely he has an ace since he limped pf. I think his range here is much more heavily weighted towards a FD or OESD. I like leading the turn here, and probably c/cing the river if it bricks. The problem with c/ring the flop here is that you now have to play a big pot with TPNK, and now you have to play stupid guessing games about what he has.

[raze]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the flop c/r.....I like c/cing flop and leading the turn waaaaayyyyy better. Also, he shows up with a set here like never and it's unlikely he has an ace since he limped pf. I think his range here is much more heavily weighted towards a FD or OESD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your line too for pot control, but I figured he would be folding to my c/r outright most of the time and I wouldn't have to worry about playing big pots w marginal hands etc etc. If his range consists of 8-9 outers, bluffs and the very rare set, why are we just calling with a 65/35 edge ? Seems like your reasoning warrants either a raise (best hand) or a fold (reverse implied odds, OOP w marginal hand).

[raze]

[ QUOTE ]
Hes not going to fold a set if you raise. And why would you want to take him off of a bluff?

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Of course not - I said I can take him off most of his range, save for sets (or force him into a bad call with a draw). Why wouldn't I want to take the pot down now if he's bluffing? Taking the pot on the flop / lean on his draw pays a lot better than just calling here OOP.

[cbboy]

Why would you WANT to take the pot down if he's bluffing? That makes no sense to me. If he has air, why would you want him to fold? Why wouldn't you continue to check and let him bluff at it?

[raze]

Because I think he has a draw more often than a bluff. A raise is correct against a draw here.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with taking down a pot against a bluff, here or anywhere. It's ok to raise out a bluff once in a while if it means charging a draw most of the time. Also, even if his range is mostly bluff, I'm not interested in check/calling PSB's on 3 streets with top pair no kicker.

[berserk]

He looks very heavily like a draw here, and i actually don't mind the c/r that much. Turn gets tricky though, i'd probably put in either something like a 1/2pot bet and check every river (folding most that hit draws) or check call it.

[_pairwin_]

I don't like the c/r on the flop, c/c flop and lead turn. I think you need to continue on the turn though because all draws missed.

[raze]

Turn ($123) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets $64, Villain calls $64


River ($250) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]-8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Villain checks


Villain shows K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[cbboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I think he has a draw more often than a bluff. A raise is correct against a draw here.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with taking down a pot against a bluff, here or anywhere. It's ok to raise out a bluff once in a while if it means charging a draw most of the time. Also, even if his range is mostly bluff, I'm not interested in check/calling PSB's on 3 streets with top pair no kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, basically what you are saying is that you want to make the hand easier to play instead of maximizing value from your hand?

[raze]

Dude, he has draws more often than bluffs. Maybe thread title should have been 'suspected semi-bluff or bluff', but here it is. I'm ahead of draws, I charge him to draw to a better hand, its that simple. If he folds a bluff once in a while, fine. Sometimes it's ok when lesser hands fold and you win pots.