Another (less dramatic) KK Hand

[DeathDonkey]

I count 19:1 so this isn't true.

-DeathDonkey

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I count 19:1 so this isn't true.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

implied odds? especially if mav has QJ which it looks like he does...

[DeathDonkey]

Reverse implied odds because we are going to spite-call the river anyway getting like 22:1?

-DeathDonkey

[joker122]

what about the chance we still are ahead or up against the other kk?

[DeathDonkey]

That's a different argument entirely. You can't just say "well we can call because we have implied odds if we spike a king because AA or Tens full will put in multiple bets on the river" and then say "oh we might be ahead btw". You can't have it both ways. What you can do (which is what you are doing) is say we balance not knowing what to do by calling down here because often we are behind and getting close to the right price, and rarely we are ahead so we approximate that by giving ourselves a little bit extra on the price we are getting and throw up our hands and hit call twice or raise when we smash it.

-DeathDonkey

[joker122]

"That's a different argument entirely. You can't just say "well we can call because we have implied odds if we spike a king because AA or Tens full will put in multiple bets on the river" and then say "oh we might be ahead btw". You can't have it both ways. "

what the...nevermind.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Reverse implied odds because we are going to spite-call the river anyway getting like 22:1?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a weird tiltmonkey if you can fold here getting 19:1 but can't fold the river getting 22:1.

Rob

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
Any thought to calling the flop and raising the turn rather than capping the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

With no reads on the opponent (not sure if we do though) I like that play, as it seems like you can get more money in with a bigger edge there often... and getting one extra SB in on the flop probably doesn't do a whole lot for you.

Also, don't you need some kind of tightish read of an online player to make this fold good? If this guy is LAGy at all, then doessn't his range here at least sometimes contain overplayed JJ-KK, or something like ATs, or even occasionally a JQs type hand?

[ryang]

what about JJ or QQ?