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#21
07-24-2007, 03:47 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think you advocate folding to his minraise, which is a great way of getting run over by a 60/30 guy. I realize that you are a bit tighter than me. Obviously, you don't feel comfortable committing when stack sizes are 72BBs, but at what stack size would you push? [/ QUOTE ] I would push if I felt there was something he could call with that I am ahead of. Stack size would come into it if he had such a small amout behind to give me good odds on the pot when he called. Good odds would be 2-1+ closer to 3-1. I really see nothing he calls a shove with that we are ahead of at this time. In a spot like this I call or fold. Take further action on turn card. Mostly looking to show down as cheap as possible. I still don't see why you want to push. I don't want him to fold hands I am ahead of and I don't want to get my money in bad. Remember he did minraise us. Donks hit flops too. Why are you so attached to second pair on this board? [/ QUOTE ] You didn't answer the question. What stacksize would he have to have for you to push this flop? [/ QUOTE ] My shove would have to equal a close to 3-1 call and at least 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] What are you talking about? How do you calculate this? You are saying you need close to 3-1 to call when YOU push?????? Please explain or answer the original question so that I understand. Maybe I'll learn something. 
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#23
07-24-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
For example,
On the flop the pot starts at $20 you bet $10. Pot now is at $30. Villian min riases to $20 and has $20 behind Pot now is at 50... If I shove he only has $20 to call. Therefore it is costing me $20 to win $70 if he calls giving me over 2-1 on my money. But now say he has $100 behind. I shove and he calls it is costing me $100 to win $150.... no good if I am behind.
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#24
07-24-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hijack. But what does this mean? Villian 60/30/4 ~50 hands what stats are those??? [/ QUOTE ] Pokertracker please read the FAQs.
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#25
07-24-2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Sorry to hijack. But what does this mean? Villian 60/30/4 ~50 hands what stats are those??? [/ QUOTE ] Pokertracker please read the FAQs. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, read FAQ and it says nothing. ANy info...?
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#26
07-24-2007, 04:03 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 60/30 with only 72BBs to start the hand. I push. [/ QUOTE ] nearly every turn card is going to make life difficult for us (i.e, we can't make good decisions on the turn). So, in these situations it's better to push than to make a fold. And, it's better to push rather than call and let our opponent utilize his position on the turn in a bigger pot where we are going to make bad decisions. In addition, this type of push will earn us some valuable image points. [/ QUOTE ] At first I thought pushing was the worst option, but after thinking about the hand a bit and realizing you only have 1PSB left after calling the min-raise, pushing seems to be the better line. As played, after the non-threatening turn I seriously have no idea what to do, thanks to the fact that we gained no information on the flop.
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#27
07-24-2007, 04:04 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Sorry to hijack. But what does this mean? Villian 60/30/4 ~50 hands what stats are those??? [/ QUOTE ] Pokertracker please read the FAQs. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, read FAQ and it says nothing. ANy info...? [/ QUOTE ] Straight from the FAQs linked to in the master sticky at the top of the forum. [ QUOTE ] : What does it mean when people say things like "Villain was 27/6/3.4" about their opponent? A: These are Poker Tracker statistics for that player. The first usually means their VP$IP, the second is their PFR amount, and the third is their overall agression factor. [/ QUOTE ]
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#28
07-24-2007, 04:04 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
60 = VPIP (% of time Voluntarily puts money in the pot preflop)
30 = PFR (preflop raise %) 4 = AF (Aggression factor. The ratio of bet and raises:calls) If you don't have PokerTracker then these numbers won't make sense. Use google to find PokerTracker. Good luck.
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#29
07-24-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 60/30 with only 72BBs to start the hand. I push. [/ QUOTE ] nearly every turn card is going to make life difficult for us (i.e, we can't make good decisions on the turn). So, in these situations it's better to push than to make a fold. And, it's better to push rather than call and let our opponent utilize his position on the turn in a bigger pot where we are going to make bad decisions. In addition, this type of push will earn us some valuable image points. [/ QUOTE ] At first I thought pushing was the worst option, but after thinking about the hand a bit and realizing you only have 1PSB left after calling the min-raise, pushing seems to be the better line. As played, after the non-threatening turn I seriously have no idea what to do, thanks to the fact that we gained no information on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Why is it that a guy who has run 60/30/4 over ~50 hands automatically has air here. Please remember he min raised us! Someone who wants to push here, please provide what you believe is his calling range.
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#30
07-24-2007, 04:17 PM
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Re: 88 vs Donk OOP, cbet gets minraised
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 60/30 with only 72BBs to start the hand. I push. [/ QUOTE ] nearly every turn card is going to make life difficult for us (i.e, we can't make good decisions on the turn). So, in these situations it's better to push than to make a fold. And, it's better to push rather than call and let our opponent utilize his position on the turn in a bigger pot where we are going to make bad decisions. In addition, this type of push will earn us some valuable image points. [/ QUOTE ] At first I thought pushing was the worst option, but after thinking about the hand a bit and realizing you only have 1PSB left after calling the min-raise, pushing seems to be the better line. As played, after the non-threatening turn I seriously have no idea what to do, thanks to the fact that we gained no information on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Why is it that a guy who has run 60/30/4 over ~50 hands automatically has air here. Please remember he min raised us! Someone who wants to push here, please provide what you believe is his calling range. [/ QUOTE ] Flush draws 9x 6x 5x The problem isn't his 'calling' range. What's his minraising flop range? We are way ahead of that range since it includes all those hands + air. You can't fold this hand to his raise and calling his minraise pretty much commits us to the hand with no ability to play well on the turn/river. So, since we are likely well ahead + we have a decent pot + opponent is somewhat shorstack, we need to just get it in and realize that sometimes he calls and beats us.
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