200NL - A8s hits trips on the river in 3-bet pot

[pariah8]

Damn I agree with everybody, not betting on the flop doesn't allow you to see where you are at, but on the river a lot of his calling range for your preflop bet is hit. On the side chance he could have bottom set on the flop which would make sense with his play (trapping on the flop, value betting the turn and river).

Obviously there's no way you raise as you are only getting called raised by hands that beat you and weak hands that floated like kq,qq, etc are not calling.

I'd call (probably a leak for me as well), but the information you gain might help you get the money back

[_TKO_]

I think seeing his hand here is really only beneficial if he's bluffing with a worse made hand, which I think is the most likely case. Calling expecting to be beat with the hopes of additional information is pretty irrelevant on this board, since most hands that he's v-betting here will be obvious.

[BobOjedaFan]

I think a call here is ludicrous. People don't make that many moves in 1/2 this guy is firing two bullets here? The solution is to not be in this situation by not 3 betting Ace-garbage PF and the checking a coordinated board AFTER you hit top pair.

The way you played it forced yourself into a situation where you have as little knowledge of his hand as possible, and 3-betting with A8 will bring you to a lot of flops were you are outkicked.

[BobOjedaFan]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn I agree with everybody, not betting on the flop doesn't allow you to see where you are at, but on the river a lot of his calling range for your preflop bet is hit. On the side chance he could have bottom set on the flop which would make sense with his play (trapping on the flop, value betting the turn and river).

Obviously there's no way you raise as you are only getting called raised by hands that beat you and weak hands that floated like kq,qq, etc are not calling.

I'd call (probably a leak for me as well), but the information you gain might help you get the money back

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the information that the Villian bets a lot of money with 3 aces, so useful.

[HumbertHumbert]

3betting is standard every now and then. 23/16 is often raising from CO w/ worse than A8s and would fold to a 3bet even if their hand is dominating like A9+. it also helps disguise your 3betting w/ big pp's.

if he calls you, you have position. you also have a general idea of his range so i dont understand the "you have no information" argument. i dont disagree w/ a flop check as he's probably not calling w/ less. of course if you're not comfortable playing against other tags in reraised pots w/o jj+ then stay away from 3betting pf.

[HumbertHumbert]

well i would call because i stink and can't fold trips even if i think i'm good only 20-25% of the time. seeing his cards just helps me justify what's probably a slightly -ev river call in a big pot. also, i think i would tilt if he showed me a bluff!

i'm surprised people dont think seeing his hand would provide insight on how he plays. if we're beat, we get to see what hands he's willing to call 3bets with rather than shove. maybe he's a bad tag that calls 3bets with aj. i think there's plenty to gleam...i mean it's not earth shattering and probably still doesn't justify a call but i think it's useful information to have about another tag.

[Pat Southern]

I really doubt he's two barrelling here, and its pretty unlikely that he's valuebetting a worse hand. I fold.

[paradroid12]

Your call on the turn looks weak. You'd be raising with AK, KK, AA, JJ, 66, or QT. And probably betting the flop with Kx hearts, and maybe even QQ/KK. The river disguises your Ax holding a little, especially since you're definitely, 100% betting AT+ on the flop, and I'm sure he's not putting you on A-rag. That means it's going to be hard for him to think you have a hand that can call 2 barrels. If I'm him, I'm hoping you call the turn, just so you can fold the river.

So, he can beat you here with AK, AQ, AJ (suited only for the last two, b/c he might be laying down AJ and ATo), KK, and QT (pretty light hand to call a 3bet with). He can easily be firing with ATC here, because you look weak.

This is a pretty good sized value bet here. You really think he's firing 2/3 pot with AK/KK/AJ+/QT when you most likely can't call? Looks a lot more like missed hearts/air to me ... or QT.

Conclusion ... I call, b/c my hand is under-repped (and also b/c I can chop with AT) and I'm not surprised if he has QT, though if it's QT off, then I'm 3betting him all day long.

[bruin]

flop check is fine.

there's no other play but to call here. Not only have you induced a bluff; you've also induced a possible value bet from KQ. A raise is gross a fold is just ridiculous, so call.

[Fat Nicky]

I'm surprised that some are so against a 3-bet pre-flop here. like i said, it's definitely not standard and not something I do every time, but I like 3-betting a wide range from the button against CO open raise. (i wouldn't 3-bet this hand against an UTG or UTG+1 raiser). for one, there is immediate EV in taking down the pot right after the 3-bet as a COs range there is fairly wide, and most players who somewhat know what they're doing won't want to call 3-bets lightly out of position. and if they want to call 3-bets against me, i really don't mind since i'll have position throughout the hand.

fwiw, i would flat call with this hand pre-flop also a good portion of the time.

any hand i would flat call on the button against a CO raise, is also a hand I am willing to 3-bet.