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  #11  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:43 PM
RollTide77 RollTide77 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 422
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

In all of these hands I'm assuming its just you and the villain so far.
1. RR
2. call and dump if his range hits the flop w/o a draw 4u
3. call and dump if you don't hit a draw
4. i might fold the KJo depending on players behind me
5. call
6. call and dump w/o TP or a draw
7. RR sometimes depending on opponent
8. call and dump w/o a draw
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  #12  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:09 PM
TheRenaissance TheRenaissance is offline
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Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

NEW AND IMPROVED POST!!!
THOUGHT PROCESS INCLUDED!!
FREE OF CHARGEOMG!!!

1. KQs in BB, 32/24 raises from button...
...villains range is super duper wide, not raising is leaving money on the table.
If he doesnt fold preflop he will fold the flop. 100% no risk to you.

2. JTs in SB, 18/12 raises from CO...
...hmm, this guy has a tighter range and probably knows what he is doing.
Also JT, suited or not, sucks balls. Fold.

3. 78s in BB, 24/17 raises from button.....
.... again villains range is super wide and I accept his offering of free monies.
Raise.

4. KJos on button, 32/24 raises from CO.....
...villains range is super duper wide, not raising is leaving money on the table.
If he doesnt fold preflop he will fold the flop. 100% no risk to you.

5. 88 on button, 32/24 raises from CO.....
...just calling will leave us in an awkward spot on many flops with this great hand.
Raise for every reason you can think of.

6. AQs on CO, 18/12 raises from UTG.....
...this one his tough; we have some reverse implied odds issues to deal with.
This guy probably has a pretty tight utg raising range (22+/AJ+). Folding isnt bad, calling is ok, an argument can be made for raising, blahblahblah, it depends.

7. 99 on BB, 24/17 raises from button....
...we have a great hand, villain has a crap hand, we raise obviously.

8. 45s on button, 24/17 raises from the CO....
...it depends on flow and image. I could do anything here.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:17 PM
IrOnLaW IrOnLaW is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 213
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

Thanks Renaissance, that is exactly what I was looking for.... Some thought process to go along with what you suggest.... Now if you have the time.... Lets change up the raisers stats, and see how our outcome changes.....

1. KQs in BB, 18/12 raises from Button
2. JTs in SB, 32/24 raises from the CO
3. 78s in BB, 15/12 raises from the Button
4. KJos on button, 18/14 raises from CO
5. 88 on button, 18/12 raies from CO
6. AQs on CO, 32/24 raises from UTG
7. 99 on BB, 15/12 raises from button
8. 45s on button, 18/14 raises from CO

Thanks again Renaissance......
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:26 PM
Guruman Guruman is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: still a NL fish - so lay off!
Posts: 3,704
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

ren, thx!

I'm assuming that you're assuming a 4x initial raise and a pot sized reraise, correct?

If your reraise get called on any of the oop hands, are you ever checfolding the flop or are you cont betting 100%?

I assume that you'll want to keep pot sizes down in that position, though I have no idea how you'll go about accomplishing that.
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  #15  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Guruman Guruman is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: still a NL fish - so lay off!
Posts: 3,704
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

also, with the KQ and 99 bb reraises:

whats the max villain stack size you'll call a push with after the reraise?
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  #16  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:33 PM
bsheck bsheck is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Doin you a favor bro
Posts: 1,086
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

[ QUOTE ]
1. Call
2. Fold
3. Fold
4. Fold
5. Call
6. Call
7. Call
8. Call

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, here's my thought process, in a nutshell. I don't want to play a big pot, especially out of position. In position you're so much better off smooth calling and seeing a flop. You'll have a chance to take advantage of your position and take the pot away from your opponent sometimes, even if you don't hit.

Out of position, you definitely don't want a big pot. While it's nice to take it down preflop, that doesn't always happen. In my experience, it rarely happens. I like to just call out of the BB with some of the better hands and sometimes check-raise the flop, even if I miss. It's such a stronger play and sometimes you'll get them to lay down good hands, such as top pair weak kicker and 2nd pair, etc.

Overall though, I tend not to worry about players taking my blind money. The big blind is 1% or less or your stack. Not really worth defending too much and having to play a hand out of position.
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  #17  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:37 PM
bozzer bozzer is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: in with the 2p2 lingo
Posts: 2,140
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

gonna zip through these with 0 reasoning just to see how i compare with others... when i say 'fold' i mean 'usually fold'.

[ QUOTE ]


1. KQs in BB, 32/24 raises from button, what's our move... RR
2. JTs in SB, 18/12 raises from CO..... F
3. 78s in BB, 24/17 raises from button..... RR/F (not sure what %s)
4. KJos on button, 32/24 raises from CO..... flip
5. 88 on button, 32/24 raises from CO..... RR
6. AQs on CO, 18/12 raises from UTG..... RR
7. 99 on BB, 24/17 raises from button.... RRRRRRRR
8. 45s on button, 24/17 raises from the CO.... RR

FYI, it is 6-max, and you range from 18/14 to 21/17

[/ QUOTE ]

good, marginal situations - in a lot of these spots my play is very situational.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:04 PM
IrOnLaW IrOnLaW is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 213
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

Thanks Renaissance, I was wondering if you or someone else could provide analyis on these situations as well.... They are close to the one's already provided, except with the original raiser's stats dramatically changed..... Thanks

1. KQs in BB, 18/12 raises from Button
2. JTs in SB, 32/24 raises from the CO
3. 78s in BB, 15/12 raises from the Button
4. KJos on button, 18/14 raises from CO
5. 88 on button, 18/12 raies from CO
6. AQs on CO, 32/24 raises from UTG
7. 99 on BB, 15/12 raises from button
8. 45s on button, 18/14 raises from CO

Thanks again Renaissance......
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  #19  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:37 PM
Supwithbates Supwithbates is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,606
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Renaissance, I was wondering if you or someone else could provide analyis on these situations as well.... They are close to the one's already provided, except with the original raiser's stats dramatically changed..... Thanks

1. KQs in BB, 18/12 raises from Button
2. JTs in SB, 32/24 raises from the CO
3. 78s in BB, 15/12 raises from the Button
4. KJos on button, 18/14 raises from CO
5. 88 on button, 18/12 raies from CO
6. AQs on CO, 32/24 raises from UTG
7. 99 on BB, 15/12 raises from button
8. 45s on button, 18/14 raises from CO

Thanks again Renaissance......

[/ QUOTE ]
I raise 6/7 and call or fold the rest. I generally only raise 8 with a really good read on the player, and even then quite sparingly, I usually just fold.
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  #20  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:37 PM
Tuff Enuff Tuff Enuff is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 54
Default Re: When to 3-bet and when to just call???

[ QUOTE ]
NEW AND IMPROVED POST!!!
THOUGHT PROCESS INCLUDED!!
FREE OF CHARGEOMG!!!

1. KQs in BB, 32/24 raises from button...
...villains range is super duper wide, not raising is leaving money on the table.
If he doesnt fold preflop he will fold the flop. 100% no risk to you.

2. JTs in SB, 18/12 raises from CO...
...hmm, this guy has a tighter range and probably knows what he is doing.
Also JT, suited or not, sucks balls. Fold.

3. 78s in BB, 24/17 raises from button.....
.... again villains range is super wide and I accept his offering of free monies.
Raise.

4. KJos on button, 32/24 raises from CO.....
...villains range is super duper wide, not raising is leaving money on the table.
If he doesnt fold preflop he will fold the flop. 100% no risk to you.

5. 88 on button, 32/24 raises from CO.....
...just calling will leave us in an awkward spot on many flops with this great hand.
Raise for every reason you can think of.

6. AQs on CO, 18/12 raises from UTG.....
...this one his tough; we have some reverse implied odds issues to deal with.
This guy probably has a pretty tight utg raising range (22+/AJ+). Folding isnt bad, calling is ok, an argument can be made for raising, blahblahblah, it depends.

7. 99 on BB, 24/17 raises from button....
...we have a great hand, villain has a crap hand, we raise obviously.

8. 45s on button, 24/17 raises from the CO....
...it depends on flow and image. I could do anything here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Currently gringing NL10.I have built my roll from $75 to $425 I currently don't have PokerTracker but it is on my short list. I understand what the numbers mean but could you give me a range of what you think the numbers mean?

For example:
VPIP of say 5 = Player is so tight you couldn't shove a toothpick up his ass.
VPIP of say 10 = Still plenty tight
VPIP of say 40 = Pretty darn loose

Could you give me your thoughts on what you preceive the following VPIP ranges to be: Where is the cutoff between a tight play and a loose player for example?
0-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
etc..

I tried the search but didn't really come up with much so your time is appreciated.I am new but trying to soak up as much as possible.
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