Why do we hate donkeys?

[jjshabado]

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I think you did. My recollection of the essay is that it was focused on the value of a single live one. It pointed out that each additional live one was not as valuable as the first, because if you play appropriate TAG the live ones are going to shuffle cash back and forth to each other while you watch. That's not to say that you don't want to play with 9 donkeys (of course you do) just that the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th donkeys add little to your win rate. But you always want player who are willing to play with the worst of it, even if SD gets higher.

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Isn't this what I said? That you winrate goes up a bit, but your SD increases more in proportion to your winrate.

The common theme of his book is that winrate isn't the only thing you should base your gambling decisions on, its the combination of winrate and SD. So depending on your bankroll and personal preference for risk you might or might not prefer the extra live ones.

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Yeah, I guess. But you would be passing on a game with a larger expectation than the one you wanted to play in. To me, that means you are underrolled if you want a solid player because of SD concerns.

I guess it is personal preference; I just can't imagine anyone in practice saying "I hope the next player that shows up is a good solid TAG instead of a donkey." I've never wished that, and I never will. But that may be that I am very " SD tolerant." My point was that I viewed the point of the essay as demonstrating that a game with one or two live ones and one or two tough players was far superior to a game full of mediocre rocks.

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Even somebody that has properly rolled may find that they get better results with a few less awful players. A large SD means more bad beats and if you can't mentally handle that, you could end up losing more money through tilt.

I'm with you though, the more donkeys the better.

[Piemaster]

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From reading people think deeper than I do, I read maximum value plummets at poor player number six.

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Those debating this particular tangent might be interested in an article I wrote a while back on this very topic.

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/texas...ing%3a-part-ii/

It doesn't prove anything, because the simulated situations are naturally contrived. However, it suggests that in certain circumstances, additional donkeys can actually hurt your win rate and it usualy occurs at about 7-9 donkeys. However, this is a long way from saying that you don't want this many bad players at your table, because in other situations you want as many as possible in the hand with you.