Hey uNL

[netstorm]

Just use a potsize raise (i.e. double the amount of the PFR + original amount of PFR + money thats already in the pot(SB, BB, limper, w/e)

So at $50nl, if UTG raises to $2, and you're in the CO, you make it $4 + $2 + $0,50 + $0,25 = $6,75.

Also, fees, I disagree about your betsizing. Why would you want to make a bigger raise when you are out of position ? I dont know what your reasoning for that might be? Perhaps that you will take the pot faster than a less big raise, but what is 1 or 2 BB gonna make a difference against a strong hand? A marginal hand will fold to a 3bet anyway, be it 11BB or 13BB. And if you're up against a big hand, you are OOP in a bigger pot than you should've been... This is mostly pointed towayds the TAGs, since they will the players that you are most likely to be 3-betting light.

I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this.

[Jago]

[ QUOTE ]
Just use a potsize raise (i.e. double the amount of the PFR + original amount of PFR + money thats already in the pot(SB, BB, limper, w/e)

[/ QUOTE ]
so 3x the pfr + dead money? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
Just use a potsize raise (i.e. double the amount of the PFR + original amount of PFR + money thats already in the pot(SB, BB, limper, w/e)

So at $50nl, if UTG raises to $2, and you're in the CO, you make it $4 + $2 + $0,50 + $0,25 = $6,75.

Also, fees, I disagree about your betsizing. Why would you want to make a bigger raise when you are out of position ? I dont know what your reasoning for that might be? Perhaps that you will take the pot faster than a less big raise, but what is 1 or 2 BB gonna make a difference against a strong hand? A marginal hand will fold to a 3bet anyway, be it 11BB or 13BB. And if you're up against a big hand, you are OOP in a bigger pot than you should've been... This is mostly pointed towayds the TAGs, since they will the players that you are most likely to be 3-betting light.

I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well first of all.. you should only be raising from the blinds (oop) with storng hands.. even open raising, I normally make it like 5bbs+1 for each limper.. here are the reasons:

1. You are ahead of their range, you want to get as much $ in while this is certain
2. playing out of position sucks.. if I just pot it, that gives them 2:1 on me, WITH position, and a pretty narrow range of my hands..
3. You want them to fold, almost always.. open up PT and sort hands by bb/hand.. you'll see maybe 10 hands that on average earn you 1 or more (big bets) per hand. Say theres 1 or more limpers and you are in the SB with 88.. this is a standard raiser, but on average you are looking to get people to fold, because if they fold, you are operating above average, you have just won 1 (big bet) or more, with a hand that normally will not earn that much, and will DEFINITLY not earn that much OOP.

cliff notes: raise extra out of position because if we are going to be at the disadvantage of playing out of position, they have to pay.. alot

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just use a potsize raise (i.e. double the amount of the PFR + original amount of PFR + money thats already in the pot(SB, BB, limper, w/e)

[/ QUOTE ]
so 3x the pfr + dead money? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah basically

[fees]

sorry that last post was about being the initial raiser, prf, but same concept, they get insane odds in a huge pot, its -ev to give them 2:1 and position with whatever their 3bet calling range is

i.e. you give proper set odds

[relativity_x]

when I 3bet I generally do bet*(n+3)+sb+bb, where n equal number of callers. This gives the initial raiser 2:1 on their call with any bet size, number of callers.

example:
25 NL

utg bets.75, utg+1 calls, HERO raises .75(1+3)+ .35= 3.35

odds=(3.35+.75+.75+.35)/(3.35-.75)=2

50 NL

utg bets 2, utg+1 calls, HERO raise 2(0+3)+.75=6.75

odds = (6.75+2+.75)/(6.75-2)=2

[Vyse]

3.5x initial raise, I'll add about 2-3 BB if someone called their raise depending who it is

[netstorm]

Fees... so you are not going to give them proper odds when you are out of position, but you are going to give them proper odds when you are in position ? Making them have to pay less when playing OOP?

[Middelemiel]

Wow just read this thread while playing and tried it 2 times. It made me so much more money, as my opponents tend to make huge mistakes, like calling 15 BB with a SC. Thanks man, great tip!!!

[Vyse]

This also gets you, especially weaker players, tied to marginal / unmade hands and use pot odds as an excuse to make crying calls, etc.