Hey uNL

[fees]

Hey uNL,
I've been poking around your threads lately, and I've noticed that most of you guys are 3betting way too small.
I know that you guys want to get value from you're hands, but you are giving them way too good odds to draw.

As a rule of thumb

in position agaisnt an open of...
3 BB's make it 11 BB's (so if I'm playing NL25 and someone raises to .75, I raise to 2.75)
3.5 BB's make it 12 BB's
4 BB's make it 13 BB's
5 BB's make it 15 BB's

in the case you are from the blinds or out of position:

3 BB's make it 13 BB's
3.5 BB's make it 14 BB's
4 BB's make it 15 BB's
5 BB's make it 16 BB's


also if you aren't doing it already, try and read SSNL as much as possible

hope this helps

[fees]

I'm bumping this.. I think its important

[relativity_x]

HEY FEES! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Jago]

so 3-4x their raise? If there's 1 CCer does it become 4-5x the initial raise? Does this only apply to PF or the entire hand?

[Shoe Lace]

Yep, this should be incorporated into one of the existing sticky guides.

I had this problem when I initially started. Big hands that I would 3bet were getting mangled by trash. Now I find myself picking up a lot of pots with a cbet, or taking their stack when I hit a set/etc (people love to put more money into a big pot with a marginal hand).

[ QUOTE ]
so 3-4x their raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part yes. Example @ NL5:

Say 1 guy limps, and someone in MP raises to 25c. You're in the SB with rockets. Raise it up to about 85c-$1.

If you all have 100BBs, and he calls with 77 and doesn't improve, he'll fold pretty much guaranteed especially if there are more than 1 over card. Tons of people will call, then give up if they don't improve -- even when their odds are horrible preflop.

It also lets you get your big hands in preflop if they happen to really have a hand. If you all have $5 stacks, and you re-raise to $1. What's he going to do with QQ/KK here? Raising is to $2.5 or $3.5 would be silly, he'll shove.

[dimeetrees]

Yea I've been trying to do this, but I find that If I feel the original raiser might not call me and I have a big pair I make it 3x his raise to induce a call.

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
so 3-4x their raise? If there's 1 CCer does it become 4-5x the initial raise? Does this only apply to PF or the entire hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

only prf.. if there is a limper and they make it 5 instead of 4 or 4.5 instead of 3.5 then just adjust your betsize, refer to the chart

[Jago]

Okay say in a 25NL game, utg raises to $1, btn cold calls, I'm in the SB with KK, I should re-raise to $4.5 as a default move? Sorry for the newb questions, just started playing NL properly tonight

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I've been trying to do this, but I find that If I feel the original raiser might not call me and I have a big pair I make it 3x his raise to induce a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the thinking that gets you into trouble, normally these guys don't can't tell the difference if its the difference of a couple big blinds, but it makes all the difference in the world to us. By using this betsizing it makes it impossible for people to setmine/draw out on our likely best hand profitably (not to say it cant happen, but longterm its harder to exploit)

It also helps us get more $ in faster, if they call it will make it harder for them to fold postflop due to potodds

also if you 3bet like min or really small they know exactly what you have and will play accordingly.. the thinking tag's at you're level will use it to your disadvantage.. some of the other players might not notice (or just assume all 3 bets are AA/KK)

Also this helps when you 3 bet other hands (88-jj, sc's, AK/AQ) .. since the betsizing is all the same, they don't know where you're at, which makes you more difficult to play agaisnt.

ALSO .. 1 more thing..

if you repop AK/AQ (ESPECIALLY OOP) and you wiff.. unless your player is weak postflop, PLEASE CHECK... I find players get into this obsession with taking down pots they repop with and its definitly -ev.. in these situations you want to c/f or c/c, if you think you're opponent is very aggressive or capable of going after these pots, I would recomend calling atleast one street

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay say in a 25NL game, utg raises to $1, btn cold calls, I'm in the SB with KK, I should re-raise to $4.5 as a default move? Sorry for the newb questions, just started playing NL properly tonight

[/ QUOTE ]

squeezing is different.. I normally just betpot if its 4 BB's... betpot +1 or 2 BB's if its a 3bb or 3.5bb INITIAL raise