When to leave the table? - Page 2

reno expat · #11 06-27-2007, 12:28 PM

A table full of 50/20s isn't hard to beat, you just beat it differently than you would a table of tighter players. You aren't going to chip up by winning small pots with preflop raises and c-bets. You will, however, win huge pots with your stronger hands. Just keep reloading to make sure you have the table max in chips and lie in wait to stack those fish.

JavaNut · #12 06-27-2007, 12:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
stop betting unless you have TPGK or better

[/ QUOTE ]

2 high cards are good 65% of the time HU. They really don't have anything either. By not betting with AK, AQ high or even A high with any BD you have given them a perfect read, unless you bet you can be made to fold. Bet every time with any pair and with good high cards. Now they will have to start paying up or folding a lot.

Shoe Lace · #13 06-27-2007, 12:43 PM

When you get guys who are calling your bets, then going super aggro on every scare card (flush/straight/paired low|middle card) and you're sitting there with maybe middle pair+draw, TPGK, or some under PP (assuming it looks like the board missed them) you never know where you're at.

It just seems like whenever I play their game and goto showdown, they have 2 pair when I have TPGK, or they have the flush when I have 2 pair, or they bailed on the flop when I have a set.

If they are betting 20c into a 60c pot on the flop and you raise them with your TPGK and they call -- but that scare card comes on the turn and you check, they always bet. If you bet the scare card, they might just call, and if the board gets scarier they'll rep that hand and push you off yours on the river or force you to play a 70-100BB pot with TPGK.

fees · #14 06-27-2007, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
stop betting unless you have TPGK or better

[/ QUOTE ]

this is really bad advice, dont follow it

whyherro · #15 06-27-2007, 02:13 PM

learn how to hand read?

DickieBets · #16 06-27-2007, 03:08 PM

I know exactly what Shoe Lace is saying - I've been having trouble against these kind of players at 10NL. My flaw is that I feel that I should learn to exploit these guys now at 10NL because if I ever move up, the opponents will get tougher. I show the hands because they aren't meant for analysis but to give an example.

Here's an example from just last night. This guy was 70/35 !!! I can't imagine reading this guy's hands. I ended up playing mediocre hands vs him and would start out well, but would invariably lose my nerve as I would think too much.

I don't normally play anything like this - I hate calling - especially with weak hands - I usually fold or raise - but I was clearly out of my element.

Here's a couple of examples :

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $20.80
DickieBets (BB): $10.00
UTG: $19.20
Villain (MP): $23.95
CO: $12.45
BTN: $10.85

Preflop: DickieBets is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.10, Villain calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, DickieBets checks

Flop: ($0.40) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, DickieBets bets $0.40, UTG folds, Villain calls $0.40, SB folds

Turn: ($1.20) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
DickieBets bets $1.00, Villain raises to $2.00, DickieBets calls $1.00

River: ($5.20) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
DickieBets checks, Villain bets $4.00, DickieBets folds

Pot Size: $9.20 ($0.25 Rake)

He had pocket 7s !

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

DickieBets (SB): $10.90
BB: $9.95
Villain (UTG): $12.85
MP: $10.20
CO: $3.85
BTN: $22.35

Preflop: DickieBets is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
Villain raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, DickieBets calls $0.25, BB folds

Flop: ($1.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
DickieBets checks, Villain checks, MP bets $0.80, CO calls $0.80, BTN folds, DickieBets calls $0.80, Villain raises to $1.60, MP folds, CO calls $0.80, DickieBets calls $0.80

Turn: ($7.20) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
DickieBets checks, Villain bets $1.30, CO raises all-in to $1.95, DickieBets calls $1.95, Villain calls $0.65
Uncalled bet of $0.00 returned to Villain

River: ($13.05) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 All-In)
DickieBets checks, Villain bets $1.90, DickieBets folds
Uncalled bet of $1.90 returned to Villain

Pot Size: $13.05 ($0.60 Rake)

Villain had 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Eights and Fives) and WON (+$8.60)
CO had A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and LOST (-$3.85)

We Major · #17 06-27-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you get guys who are calling your bets, then going super aggro on every scare card (flush/straight/paired low|middle card) and you're sitting there with maybe middle pair+draw, TPGK, or some under PP (assuming it looks like the board missed them) you never know where you're at.

It just seems like whenever I play their game and goto showdown, they have 2 pair when I have TPGK, or they have the flush when I have 2 pair, or they bailed on the flop when I have a set.

If they are betting 20c into a 60c pot on the flop and you raise them with your TPGK and they call -- but that scare card comes on the turn and you check, they always bet. If you bet the scare card, they might just call, and if the board gets scarier they'll rep that hand and push you off yours on the river or force you to play a 70-100BB pot with TPGK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I make several adjustments to these types:

1. Make my preflop bets bigger. The reason for this is I'm playing better cards than them so I have to make them pay for calling every preflop raise.
2. Think on the next level. If you know they're floating your cbets and betting scare cards, come over the top and represent it yourself. Fold a few times to set up this move. When the scare card comes, get out a couple times, make them think they can run you over. The next time it happens, come over the top all in.
3. Play back with TPTK or huge overs.
4. If you can isolate them, raise hands that they don't think hit you. In my experience these types of players will fold to a cbet with any A and play back if there's no A on the board. Anytime an A comes down, bet at the pot. Raise hands like 68 suited since they think these cards dont' hti your range. If you can hit a 2 pair type hand and give them enough rope to hang themselves you'll win a huge pot.

Heffer · #18 06-28-2007, 02:55 AM

The questions is if it isnt more profitable to change to a table where your cbets are respectet if you run at 20/15 or so at a 6max table.

If you hit thats ok and you win some money from the nutty ones and the decent players, but there is so much money in these cbets and if you get called and villain gets the pot you lose at least 10BB in most cases.
I don't have any stats on it but i think that cbets surely add some bb/100 to your account and if that vanishes you might be better off at a "normal" table.

And didn't some of you made the experience that if you won big at a table in like 70% of the cases you leave the table with less then the max you had?

You will probably losen up your game maybe unconscious or not. And those <50bb stacks don't mind if theres a bigstack or not cause they are almost always covered by the other players.

I didn't do that but i'll try and leave the table when i won a good amount of money. Don't get me wrong i don't leave the next hand but when I see that after a while it doesn't get any better i might leave.
Maybe it doesnt matter, maybe it will save me some money. But there's a chance that it might be better for my bankroll.