bad calldown?

[(_8-(l) DOH!]

agreed ^^^^

[yourface]

you do not have any fold equity on the turn vs most players in these games. do you really think someone is folding AJ or KJs? they're going to call the raise hoping to draw to 2pair and then call the river anyways because the pot is big and there are draws on the board

you do not have enough equity vs his range to raise

this is a crying call down that I would make but the river is probably a fold vs a reasonable player

[yourface]

cobretti I've read a bunch of your posts tonight and there is one big thing I've noticed. you need to consider villain's whole range of hands. it seems to me like you're just thinking "well he can have draws here so I've got to charge them". when you've only got 3rd pair and his range contains a whole lot of better pairs as well as the draws that actually have pretty good equity vs your hand you just can't keep throwing bets in the pot.

also it seems like you overestimate the fold equity you have in these games. in general I never expect anyone to fold a pair vs me unless the board is really really scary

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the line.

I would be inclined to raise the turn. I don't like giving players free shots. You also may get him to fold a J.

[/ QUOTE ]


hahahahahahaha

someone fold a pair, lmao

what [censored] universe are you from?

No tag is folding AJ on the turn, esp once they get any read on you. I have never played a hand against you, and I'd never fold a J here

[Cobretti]

[ QUOTE ]
cobretti I've read a bunch of your posts tonight and there is one big thing I've noticed. you need to consider villain's whole range of hands. it seems to me like you're just thinking "well he can have draws here so I've got to charge them". when you've only got 3rd pair and his range contains a whole lot of better pairs as well as the draws that actually have pretty good equity vs your hand you just can't keep throwing bets in the pot.

also it seems like you overestimate the fold equity you have in these games. in general I never expect anyone to fold a pair vs me unless the board is really really scary

[/ QUOTE ]
His range is very likely going to be tight here. Smaller pairs are not likely. Either he is way ahead or has a decent draw. If he is ahead, I want to pay as little as possible. But, in this case, it costs the same to raise the turn as it is to call the turn and call the river. If he would bet the turn and then check the river on a draw, you have charged him an extra bet for the draw.

You only really lose on this line if he will 3 bet you on a draw or will call the raise and then fire the river when his draw misses and thus force you to lay down the winning hand. I think this is a pretty rare move for a 3/6 player.

Please explain why you think putting a bet in on the turn and a bet in on the river is better then putting 2 bets in on the turn.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
cobretti I've read a bunch of your posts tonight and there is one big thing I've noticed. you need to consider villain's whole range of hands. it seems to me like you're just thinking "well he can have draws here so I've got to charge them". when you've only got 3rd pair and his range contains a whole lot of better pairs as well as the draws that actually have pretty good equity vs your hand you just can't keep throwing bets in the pot.

also it seems like you overestimate the fold equity you have in these games. in general I never expect anyone to fold a pair vs me unless the board is really really scary

[/ QUOTE ]
His range is very likely going to be tight here. Smaller pairs are not likely. Either he is way ahead or has a decent draw. If he is ahead, I want to pay as little as possible. But, in this case, it costs the same to raise the turn as it is to call the turn and call the river. If he would bet the turn and then check the river on a draw, you have charged him an extra bet for the draw.

You only really lose on this line if he will 3 bet you on a draw or will call the raise and then fire the river when his draw misses and thus force you to lay down the winning hand. I think this is a pretty rare move for a 3/6 player.

Please explain why you think putting a bet in on the turn and a bet in on the river is better then putting 2 bets in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


If this guy bets the turn, and bets the river, you lose.

So call the turn, and fold the river.

Or, just fold the turn.

Your hand isn't worth 2BB from the turn on, your logic of having to put 2BB in somehow is flawed. I want to put 0 BB in on the turn and river.

At what point, PP wise, do you stop raising the turn, and just fold the flop? TT, 99,88,77,66,55?

[Cobretti]

[ QUOTE ]
If this guy bets the turn, and bets the river, you lose.

So call the turn, and fold the river.

Or, just fold the turn.

Your hand isn't worth 2BB from the turn on, your logic of having to put 2BB in somehow is flawed. I want to put 0 BB in on the turn and river.

At what point, PP wise, do you stop raising the turn, and just fold the flop? TT, 99,88,77,66,55?

[/ QUOTE ]
As I stated in my previous post, "if I was going to pay him off". I am simply comparing to the OP's turn and river call. If I was going to place 2 bets I would want them both in on the turn.

[TheWunderkind]

i think cobretti is right in this sceanrio, raising the Turn is a viable line here too

I agree with having almost 0% fold equity but thats not the point

I would fold the River as played

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand plays so much easier when yoy just cap pre and take it from there

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because your PF Cap indicates AK, QQ+ and makes your opponent put more weight on the fact that he isn't going to bully you off the pot and that he is really going to need something?

And one additional bet PF, if that is what it's telling your opponent, won't he bet heavy on the Flop, to ensure you really meant it PF?

And then, aren't we going to be wondering whether he is betting heavy on the Flop to ensure we meant it PF, or really has a hand?

What is it in this particular situation, that you consider before making the decision to cap it PF v. 2 opponents, when there is a 70% chance of at least one overcard to your pair coming on the Flop?

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the line.

I would be inclined to raise the turn. I don't like giving players free shots. You also may get him to fold a J.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you discount the possibility that Villain has a Q or J enough to make you a winner often enough to compensate for the raise on the Turn?
What if he 3-bets the Turn?