$16 Stars: QQ line check

[RRizGod]

your being to results oriented. You cant marry yourself to big hands.

I raise to 3x every time in an unopened pot because I want to remain unpredictable.

It might lead to suck outs, but in the long run you can make more money when you play the later streets good.

Good players know when to slow down.

[Kevin8423]

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To which I can answer, since then I've done it once so far with AA, got called by Q5s to which they hit two pair on a flop QJ5. I really wish I had raised 5x.

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That is way too results oriented, wait till you do it 100 times then you'll see how much you profit. There is a reason why people on the forum are in agreement that 3xBB is the best raise pf (the line you seem to be referring to), if you want proof watch the best players at whatever level you play and see what they all do.

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

Oh I know it's just 1 hand, I would never make any concrete judgments on a single example. The thing of it is though, lets say in the example, there was 250 in the pot at the flop. Villain pot-sizes the bet presumably with TPTK or even just TP since this is low stakes here. I come over the top for 750 with my stack of 1300 or have/want to push on the flop to which I'm destined to be porked. Or I call, and he leads out again to which I still don't know if he's just got TP or better. Either way it's going to take a raise, or calling it down at which point I might be all-in anyways. Meaning... I'm not sure how to slow down the hand at this point. It seems like early level I have to pay off a two-pair or set that sneaks in no matter what.

And I guess as it relates to our 3x vs 5x... 5x would seem to limit the potential two pairs coming at me. But I hear ya, I got to look at it over the run.

[RRizGod]

you can't slow down once you raise the flop for half your stack.

[Beerocrat]

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But the point is there is a line that you still have to draw to push out bad hands, attempting to isolate for the most part while simultaneously making money. Otherwise you would always just CALL with AA.

A lot of you guys are saying stick with 3x early, and I've submitted that yes I will go right on and see how that works for me. To which I can answer, since then I've done it once so far with AA, got called by Q5s to which they hit two pair on a flop QJ5. I really wish I had raised 5x.


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Yes, you want to narrow the field, but you also want to build a pot and get some action. If you raised 5BB with AA early on, you are generally winning only the blinds. What kind of value is that for AA? The general rule is 3BB+1BB for each limper already in, and most ppl cut it to a base of 2.5BB in the later stages. You should want some action with premium hands. Sure, you will get cracked sometimes. I would love for Q5s to call my PF raise, every time. Try not to be results oriented.

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

But what I'm saying also is that was one option with action coming at me.

The other is that he leads out, and I call to string him along. He leads out again, I call, etc down. There's really no way to slow down this scenario where the light bulb goes off I'm beat unless I raise, and even then he might fight back with AQ.

[donkeykong2]

i m pretty happy if the bb calls here preflop, you really want him to fold KT [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]? lol

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But the point is there is a line that you still have to draw to push out bad hands, attempting to isolate for the most part while simultaneously making money. Otherwise you would always just CALL with AA.

A lot of you guys are saying stick with 3x early, and I've submitted that yes I will go right on and see how that works for me. To which I can answer, since then I've done it once so far with AA, got called by Q5s to which they hit two pair on a flop QJ5. I really wish I had raised 5x.


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Yes, you want to narrow the field, but you also want to build a pot and get some action. If you raised 5BB with AA early on, you are generally winning only the blinds. What kind of value is that for AA? The general rule is 3BB+1BB for each limper already in, and most ppl cut it to a base of 2.5BB in the later stages. You should want some action with premium hands. Sure, you will get cracked sometimes. I would love for Q5s to call my PF raise, every time. Try not to be results oriented.

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I hear ya, but remember that my mind was set for 5x before the results. I'm not saying 3x is bad on the one hand, and yes everyone would love Q5 to call your AA under any circumstances.

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

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i m pretty happy if the bb calls here preflop, you really want him to fold KT [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]? lol

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Sigh... everyone is so stuck on the actual hand KT. Point is it can be any two medium strength hands that decided the odds were good enough, jumped in your sandbox and are now looking at taking your stack from you.

But yes I realize letting them in and taking a stack from anyone who didn't pair an A or a K is the more likely possibility.

Enough, I give up!

[Beerocrat]

I can see where you are coming from, and there are circumstances where you need to adjust to the table. If the table is really loose, and everybody calls 3BB, then you may need to increase the raise amount to achieve the same effect. This should be an adjustment, though, and not a general rule. I play low stakes as well, and the 3BB raise generally achieves the intended result.