$16 Stars: QQ line check

[RRizGod]

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looks like you played it right. You can't beat much but a busted flush draw. A good player though probably isn't calling from the BB though without a pair or A.


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So if he isn't calling without a pair or a A isn't it better to don't Cbet?

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I pretty much always C-Bet a heads up flop. If he has a lower pair, its probably going to win you the pot or more money.

If you don't bet that flop, you become way to predictable.

So if he isn't calling without a pair or a A isn't it better to don't Cbet?

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

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Because 3x at this stage is way too small to anyone considering implied odds at this stage. 3x with Aces is a lot better than 3x with Queens. I don't think you want to invite anyone on a lark into your QQ.

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You are trying to accomplish getting rid of cards like KT+. If I'm in the BB with KTs, and someone puts a 3x into me at 25/50, you think I'm going to go away? It's 100 to call into a 225 pot. Even if I KNEW he had QQ, calling is the right move based on pot odds.

You want people to make mistakes, and giving people those odds is not putting them to a mistake.

[Beerocrat]

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You are trying to accomplish getting rid of cards like KT+. If I'm in the BB with KTs, and someone puts a 3x into me at 25/50, you think I'm going to go away? It's 100 to call into a 225 pot. Even if I KNEW he had QQ, calling is the right move based on pot odds.

You want people to make mistakes, and giving people those odds is not putting them to a mistake.

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I disagree calling with KTs out of position for 7% of your stack when you are a dog is the right move at this stage in an STT. I fold that all day. You just can't go spewing chips as an underdog based on pot odds. Thats HOHriffic, IMO. With QQ, I am fine with being called by KTs, because I know how to fold to an overcard, which usually won't come.

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

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I'm not sure QQ is a hand that should just get a 3x raise at the 25/50 level. Probably more like 5x.

Also a bet at the turn would have been interesting. Potential backfire if he had an ace, but at least you'd know what's up.

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Why 5BB? Firing a second barrel to see "what's up" is overrated.

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About the 2nd barrel, the problem is Hero's flop bet. If he pot-sized it the first time, I agree... 2nd barrel has no point on a 3 turn card. But for someone looking to hit a stack, there's a chance he may have chased the nuts. I'd only advocate *thinking* about a 2nd shot if you've already made that 200 flop bet.

[Th3R3dDr4g0n]

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You are trying to accomplish getting rid of cards like KT+. If I'm in the BB with KTs, and someone puts a 3x into me at 25/50, you think I'm going to go away? It's 100 to call into a 225 pot. Even if I KNEW he had QQ, calling is the right move based on pot odds.

You want people to make mistakes, and giving people those odds is not putting them to a mistake.

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I disagree calling with KTs out of position for 7% of your stack when you are a dog is the right move at this stage in an STT. I fold that all day. You just can't go spewing chips as an underdog based on pot odds. Thats HOHriffic, IMO. With QQ, I am fine with being called by KTs, because I know how to fold to an overcard, which usually won't come.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with your reasoning, but I'm just not that tight that I can fold KTs, and 2.25 to 1 pot odds heads-up. I agree position is a problem, but I'm usually okay making a 10% type move early. You have plenty of time to rebuild with the small blinds.

Anyway, I'm not alone in my thinking since both Dan Harrington and Scott Fischman would advocate the same advice. QQ+ needs a little bit more pre-flop pepper in early online play.

[RRizGod]

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You are trying to accomplish getting rid of cards like KT+. If I'm in the BB with KTs, and someone puts a 3x into me at 25/50, you think I'm going to go away? It's 100 to call into a 225 pot. Even if I KNEW he had QQ, calling is the right move based on pot odds.

You want people to make mistakes, and giving people those odds is not putting them to a mistake.

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I disagree calling with KTs out of position for 7% of your stack when you are a dog is the right move at this stage in an STT. I fold that all day. You just can't go spewing chips as an underdog based on pot odds. Thats HOHriffic, IMO. With QQ, I am fine with being called by KTs, because I know how to fold to an overcard, which usually won't come.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with your reasoning, but I'm just not that tight that I can fold KTs, and 2.25 to 1 pot odds heads-up. I agree position is a problem, but I'm usually okay making a 10% type move early. You have plenty of time to rebuild with the small blinds.

Anyway, I'm not alone in my thinking since both Dan Harrington and Scott Fischman would advocate the same advice. QQ+ needs a little bit more pre-flop pepper in early online play.

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I dont think I'm going that far out on a limb when I say pretty much all good SNG players fold K-10 from the BB preflop to a 3X raise heads up.

[jack_of_hearts]

I'm never calling the KT in the BB there.

[Beerocrat]

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I don't think there's anything wrong with your reasoning, but I'm just not that tight that I can fold KTs, and 2.25 to 1 pot odds heads-up. I agree position is a problem, but I'm usually okay making a 10% type move early. You have plenty of time to rebuild with the small blinds.

Anyway, I'm not alone in my thinking since both Dan Harrington and Scott Fischman would advocate the same advice. QQ+ needs a little bit more pre-flop pepper in early online play.

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I wouldn't advise using Harrington and Fischman as the golden standards for STT play, but don't take it from me, there is no shortage of others on this board that will tell you the same (in less friendly terms). Many of Harringtons STT examples are incorrect.

The problem I have with calling out of position just because you are getting 2.25:1, is that you are easily dominated and may be a bigger dog than 2.25:1. What do you do now if your hand hits? You are first to act and don't have much info. What if a K hits? Hero makes the same play with AK and you are in trouble. What about when a T high board hits? You are now in a terrible spot vs JJ+. You might be getting exact odds of your hand winning if it were all in preflop, but you are out of position and will face only difficult decisions throughout the hand.

[AMT]

looks fine to me overall. river blows.

[Kevin8423]

You are very short, especially in later stages of stts where calling because of pot odds is simply incorrect due to your stack size. It is a lot different from a cash game or some tournament early on where you are much deeper.