$50NL Really Lost with 99

[Warteen]

[ QUOTE ]
I only call this with some sort of read. With no read like you are stated, I'm folding with 99. JJ+ I will make the call. I think villain could easily have us beat here, and to me this is the type of call where you NEED to have a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no difference between 99 and JJ here unless we think the opponent is holding TT.

[Disconnected]

Call on the river. As others have said, your turn check induces a lot of bluffs, or even mistaken value bets.

If you raise preflop, it should probably be for a little more, especially OOP. I'm curious how many people just check with mid pairs after 3 limpers? How about from SB? Still raise, or complete?

[Warteen]

[ QUOTE ]
Call on the river. As others have said, your turn check induces a lot of bluffs, or even mistaken value bets.

If you raise preflop, it should probably be for a little more, especially OOP. I'm curious how many people just check with mid pairs after 3 limpers? How about from SB? Still raise, or complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

A while ago, I would always raise 77 and 88 from the BB if it was limped to me. That was until a high stakes friend of mine told me that was total spew. So now I don't.

[boycalledroy]

The reason you raise it is to sweeten the pot in case you hit big. Why would it be spew? At these steaks it's all about stacking people so raise all pp's.

[Warteen]

1) You don't have position.
2) You're not getting your money in good. (You're only likely to win the pot with a set, b/c it will probably be multi-way and a c-bet on a whiff would not be good.)

It's way better to see if you hit your set and then take action to win some money, rather than putting money in hoping for that 1 in 11 chance (or is it 1 in 8? I can never remember).

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
I only call this with some sort of read. With no read like you are stated, I'm folding with 99. JJ+ I will make the call. I think villain could easily have us beat here, and to me this is the type of call where you NEED to have a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You don't.

[matrix]

call, make a note, and probably reload.

Your only read is he's aggro post flop, so there's a (slightly) better than average chance his river bet is a bluff or a misplaced value bet with hands like 78 that don't realise they are counterfeited.

This is a very read dependant call (which is pretty thin at best)and here's nothing wrong with folding imo. It looks as tho he was slowplaying an overpair or flopped a set and rivered a boat while being scared of the turned 3flush.

Reload preflop Raise more preflop - standard is 4BB +1BB per limper as our hand is very likely the best hand at the table preflop we want the donks to put more money in the pot when they are behind.


Warteenid high stakes friend tell you WHY he thinks it's spew?

I think you should raise all PP's preflop playing 6max. From any position over any number of limpers (tho if you are OTB and almost everyone has limped, over limping can be a good play)

The reason is to make the pot size on the flop big enough to be able to get the stacks in by the river.

Take a step back from the poker table and look at the slightly bigger picture for a sec.

When the flop comes down in poker sometimes we flop a BIG POT hand, when that happens we try as hard as possible to play a BIG POT by coaxing our opponents into making or calling big bets and raises.

Usually we flop nothing, most of the time we do flop something it's a small pot hand where we want to get to SD for a small to medium pot.

When we flop a BIG POT hand it's very very very difficult (unless villain also has a BIG HAND) to get the stacks in by the river.

A difference in potsize preflop by $1 or $2 can make a $20+ difference in the amount of the bet/call on teh river.

We raise pp's because i) they are usually (even 22) the best hand at the table preflop and we want to get money into the pot when we are ahead.

and ii) to make the pot easier to manipulate into a BIG POT when we flop a BIG HAND (like a set)

7 lots of preflop raises lost = ~30BB

1 big bet on the river in a large pot can easily exceed 30BB.

[Disconnected]

Nice thoughts on the benefits of squeezing with pocket pairs, Matrix. I will generally squeeze limpers with my best hands and occasionally bad hands. Hands like middle and lower suited connectors and medium and low pocket pairs, I've been generally content to see the free flop and go from there. But you are absolutely correct that it becomes much easier to manipulate the pot for stacks when it's bloated preflop. I'll have to think some on it and experiment.

For what it's worth, I could see how you and Warteen's high stakes friend can both be correct, since the implied odds are likely to be greater at lower stakes.