Live 3/6 T8s in the SB - Page 3

NickPappagiorgio · #21 05-29-2007, 04:11 PM

Preflop: I call

Flop: I'd cap as well. You have a pair, flush draw and backdoor straight draws. You almost definitely have the equity against a lag and someone who has shown no strength yet.

Turn: I probably check too, but I don't think betting is bad.

River: I bet/call. It's a weird line by the BB. Usually when more than 1 bet goes in on the river, the other player has a strong hand in these games.

Niediam · #22 05-29-2007, 04:15 PM

Hard to say what exactly the person who has just called every bet has. I didn't include any other heart draws on purpose - obviously somebody else having one is either bad or disasterous depending if we have the higher hearts of not. But I'm thinking something reasonable would be:

2,066,967 games 0.141 secs 14,659,340 games/sec

Board: Qh 8s 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.492% 38.70% 00.79% 799873 16422.00 { QQ+, AQs, AQo }
Hand 1: 16.190% 15.21% 00.98% 314363 20274.00 { AQs, KQs, Q9s+, T9s, 96s, 65s, AQo, KQo, Q9o+, T9o, 96o, 65o }
Hand 2: 44.318% 44.13% 00.19% 912183 3852.00 { Th8h }

Ricks · #23 05-29-2007, 05:00 PM

I think a flop cap is OK. You have ~ 40% equity against what is now 4 opponents (you have no implied odds with the all-in player). I only give you about 10+ outs ( 2 for the eights, 8 for the ten high flush draw against 3 or more opponents, and less than 1 out for a BDST using only one card and that is able turn an OESD with only one card).

If you didn't cap the flop, I would be OK with that too. Whether or not you could preserve your implied odds by not capping the flop is close IMO, mainly because you are first to act and a 3flush on the board tends to frighten players in these games. It all depends on your read of the LAG.

I do not 3-bet that river.

ChuckyB · #24 05-29-2007, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Suited one-gappers OOP are not good hands, esp with a LAG on the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i hate it when i make a big hand and c/r the field and win a giant pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an important point. Though your absolute position, with the aggressive player on your left appears to suck, your relative position when he takes the lead pre-flop is the best. If he leads at the flop (after you checked to him), you get to act last.

In low-limit games I usually don't care if aggressive players are on my left or right. If they're on my right, I can isolate them or knock out other players with my raise. If they're on my left, I can use them to value-bet the crap out of draws and win huge pots.

ChuckyB · #25 05-29-2007, 05:31 PM

Flop cap is awesome.

Turn check is fine if you're afraid BB will raise and make the field call two cold. I don't like that as much. I certainly don't mind the check around.

As for opponents knowing you have a flush draw...often they won't. And if you hit your flush, there's nothing they can do about it and a few will still pay you off. And, if you hit two-pair, you could get some people steaming.

3-bet is a little much on the river. I like bet/call better.

ProfessorBen · #26 05-29-2007, 07:22 PM

Preflop is standard.

The flop raise/cap is fine given that you have 6 players coming along. You're equity is definitely above 1/6 at this point.

Bet/call the river.

Gap23Razor · #27 05-29-2007, 08:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
8-handed loose-passive game, with a LAG in the seat to my left.

Preflop: Hero is delt T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the SB
3 limpers, button goes all in for 5, Hero calls, BB raises to 8, everyone calls.

Flop: (15 SB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players, 1 all in)
Hero checks, BB bets, everyone calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, 1 calls, 2 folds, Hero caps, everyone calls.

Turn: (14.5 BB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img][3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (4 players, 1 all in)
Hero checks, everyone else checks.

River: (14.5 BB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img][3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]][T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] (4 Players, 1 all in)
Hero bets, BB raises, 1 call, Hero 3-bets, everyone calls.

Standard or wrong on every street?

[/ QUOTE ]

pre-flop good,
flop - very good, flush draw, paired low card, a modest kicker card, and a backdoor straight..a strong draw i would figure would be worth around 10-11 outs after discounting (you don't have draw to nut flush, you pair card is low & kicker is modest), but its a strong draw with that many outs...time to jam

turn--still time to put money in the pot, maybe 10 good outs still here...why no bet?...with 3 other contributors you figure to get a caller or two call both the turn and river...so you have implied odds to make a bet on the turn with your draw...if a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes you will not get much action, so you need to bet now when the others will call

the river T probably doesn't help your hand much i think, i would check/call - 8 or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] coming would justify betting out...but i think a t is probably not good enough

Meraxes · #28 05-29-2007, 08:25 PM

Even though I still have maybe 10-12 outs on the turn, since there's only 1 card left to come, I'd need at least 3 callers to bet for value. Since one player is all in, I can only get at best 2 callers.

In retrospect, my river raise was probably too tell-dependant(often unreliable), and given the BB's confusing action in the hand, just calling his raise would have been better.

NickPappagiorgio · #29 05-30-2007, 12:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Even though I still have maybe 10-12 outs on the turn, since there's only 1 card left to come, I'd need at least 3 callers to bet for value. Since one player is all in, I can only get at best 2 callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this statement, but you may also get someone to fold a better hand or a hand that would have become a better hand on the river. It's obviously read dependent, but it's also something that needs to be taken into consideration.

Cactus Jack · #30 05-30-2007, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Suited one-gappers OOP are not good hands, esp with a LAG on the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i hate it when i make a big hand and c/r the field and win a giant pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an important point. Though your absolute position, with the aggressive player on your left appears to suck, your relative position when he takes the lead pre-flop is the best. If he leads at the flop (after you checked to him), you get to act last.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's a good point. It's funny. I forget about relative position when discussing hands, but not when I'm playing. I think it's a visualization thing.

nh, sir