TT in Overpair Flop

[Zeldark]

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I did end up folding the turn, but I was stressed by the decision.

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hint
This is why "raising for information" is bad.

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I think this is a bad habit I have from when I read phil hilmuths books that basically say to raise every frickin hand you have for information. I will try to cut this out. At these low limits, any information I would get anyways is tainted by poor players.

Thanks, K.

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Ummm, I coud be behind the times, but isn't phil helmuth's book... No limit?

Also, you can gain a lot of information and not raising specifically for it.

[voyamatarte]

The book I read is a tiny, 210 pageish, little pocket book. It was made for limit, and alot of it is poor advice, at least, from what I have read from these forums and 2+2 books.

[milesdyson]

OP - easy, turn check fold. that bet costs you about one big bet.

GUITIEREZ - easy, preflop 3-bet.

of these two mistakes, OP's is worse by a long shot. that turn bet is a disaster.

[Xhad]

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I had JJ and flopped top set.

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Xhad's slowplaying law strikes again!

Even before I saw any of this I was about to say "I'd check the turn because MP looks to be making an obvious slowplay." This is almost as bad as the flop call/3bet line in terms of turning your hand face up for the benefit of the good players. Also, you need to consider possible hands hero can have and what this line does for how much action you get vs. 3betting (hint: it's basically always less).

[voyamatarte]

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of these two mistakes, OP's is worse by a long shot. that turn bet is a disaster.


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The problem I have here is that alot of players at this limit will play absolute crap and bluff it out until the end. In this hand, I folded the turn raise, but if Guitierez had called me, I would have bet out again at the river if it was a 9 or lower. The .10/.20 limits have some [censored] players, and it's easy to get bogged down in trying to drag out value from them. Occasionally, a good player sneaks in without me knowing, and they can rip me off for big pots.

Against a player who isin't retarded, I think the turn bet IS -EV. Against the normally profitable, occasionally frustrating bluffs I am seeing recently, Im not quite sure yet that it is -EV, but the line may be much closer than I realized.

[kerowo]

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of these two mistakes, OP's is worse by a long shot. that turn bet is a disaster.


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The problem I have here is that alot of players at this limit will play absolute crap and bluff it out until the end. In this hand, I folded the turn raise, but if Guitierez had called me, I would have bet out again at the river if it was a 9 or lower. The .10/.20 limits have some [censored] players, and it's easy to get bogged down in trying to drag out value from them. Occasionally, a good player sneaks in without me knowing, and they can rip me off for big pots.

Against a player who isin't retarded, I think the turn bet IS -EV. Against the normally profitable, occasionally frustrating bluffs I am seeing recently, Im not quite sure yet that it is -EV, but the line may be much closer than I realized.

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The problem is that you aren't getting bluffed near as much as you think you are and they only way you are going to find out is by paying for reads other people will give you for free if you are patient enough. You make money at the micros buy value betting your made hands not by getting into pissing contests with 2nd and 3rd pair expecting to be bluffed or bet someone off a hand.

[voyamatarte]

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You make money at the micros buy value betting your made hands not by getting into pissing contests with 2nd and 3rd pair expecting to be bluffed or bet someone off a hand.

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I've read this enough that you would think that it would have sunk in a little bit more, but ... it hasn't. Odd, considering that I am a very trusting person outside of poker, to have a leak like this.

Value bet. Value bet. Value bet.
They aren't ALWAYS bluffing.

[fretelöo]

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They aren't ALWAYS bluffing.

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lol That's still the wrong way around. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[voyamatarte]

Explain?