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#41
05-24-2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] In fact, the concepts you both are talking about are reverse implied odds. Same idea, just works the opposite way(hence the "reverse" ). [/ QUOTE ]Nit. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] (point being, the amount the stacks is often more important than what is in the pot) [/ QUOTE ] Hey, I am supporting you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I was really just trying to prove your point that it is, in fact, implied odds. It is in the name! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] And I am not arguing with either of you. Stack size is very important when making any decision in NLHE. It is always a factor in how a hand should be played or how much you should bet. My point is only that against better players you are not getting the correct implied odds even if it appears so, in a heads up pot. The difference in a 2 way pot and a 3 way pot can be enormous for implied odds. 
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#42
05-24-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
I do want to agree with you however about knowing why you are raising. Most people are only raising because that is what they do with the cards they were dealt in the position they were dealt them. Even this robotic play is not terrible against bad players, but you should know what your goal is when you bet. This true to both preflop and post flop betting.
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#43
05-24-2007, 04:24 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
[ QUOTE ]
And I am not arguing with either of you. Stack size is very important when making any decision in NLHE. It is always a factor in how a hand should be played or how much you should bet. [/ QUOTE ]And the reason that it is important is the POTENTIAL for it to come into play; this was my original point about stealing blinds, though perhaps poorly worded in haste. If you are against players who are not very good at poker, tapping into their potential stacks behind CAN be higher +EV than stealing their blinds, and if you determine this to be the case, limping (rather than raising) might allow you to do this better. [ QUOTE ] The difference in a 2 way pot and a 3 way pot can be enormous for implied odds. [/ QUOTE ]Which is one reason it COULD be correct to limp and encourage a multi way pot with a speculative kind of hand. (Had to go there in order to bring the discussion full circle [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )
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#44
05-24-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
[ QUOTE ]
I do want to agree with you however about knowing why you are raising. Most people are only raising because that is what they do with the cards they were dealt in the position they were dealt them. Even this robotic play is not terrible against bad players, but you should know what your goal is when you bet. This true to both preflop and post flop betting. [/ QUOTE ]Are we in violent agreement then? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Anyway, really that was the only point I was trying to get across in the beginning. Raise because you have a good reason to, not because you read you should do it on an internet forum.
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#45
05-24-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I do want to agree with you however about knowing why you are raising. Most people are only raising because that is what they do with the cards they were dealt in the position they were dealt them. Even this robotic play is not terrible against bad players, but you should know what your goal is when you bet. This true to both preflop and post flop betting. [/ QUOTE ]Are we in violent agreement then? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Anyway, really that was the only point I was trying to get across in the beginning. Raise because you have a good reason to, not because you read you should do it on an internet forum. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, we are in agreement. I have always been an advocate that there are times when open limping are okay (I will go so far as to say it is ok even from the button). The other discussion may have been better suited for another thread. Sorry for getting OT, but I was just disagreeing about the statement about the blinds being unimportant. Then I guess I kinda got off on how people over do and mis-apply some concepts
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#46
05-24-2007, 05:16 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
It's always a game of balancing. If good players don't pay off on sets, you can start pretending sets and get paid by that; I mean there is always a higher level of thinking we can act at.
Considering the microstakes on partypoker you will find a lot of tight players who do are paying attention a little, by raising your SC or suited aces sometimes you are stealing the blinds + they will pay you off if you hit because they didn't see that hand coming; if the pot is larger people will faster make mistakes. Now if you just always openlimp with SC and pocket pairs that becomes really obvious even on lower levels; and if someone with A8 comes into the hand and you hit your flush do you think you get paid off? I don't think so... By the way if you raise and get called you can often take it away with a cbet. Of course if players start reraising you you should back down.
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#47
05-24-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: Only raising preflop? Never limp?
[ QUOTE ]
By the way if you raise and get called you can often take it away with a cbet. [/ QUOTE ] I'm quoting for emphasis. This is a really useful tool for all nl beginners to be aware of.
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