Anyone else hate limit?

[captZEEbo]

[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

[spino1i]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Zeebo, you are my hero. Nice post.

[Chlamidiac]

I NEVER PLAY NL.. I played 18 hands tonight, lost 4k with top set..

Therefore, I hate NL.

Thanks

[BoxTree]

[ QUOTE ]
I NEVER PLAY NL.. I played 18 hands tonight, lost 2 buy-ins with top set..

Therefore, I hate NL.

And I like to annoy people by cross-posting my bad beat stories.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

They weren't around hardly anywhere other than private games. Not around anything like they are today. However, it's been shown that because of the edge of the better players, worse players will go bust faster.

[ QUOTE ]
WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see that tested. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Takes a bit more than just preflop. Besides, same can be said for N/L if you just play premiums, can't it?

But, yeah, it can be boring. Especially for those that don't know how to watch a hand they're not involved in. But I'll say that many(usually a live player spouting at my table) I hear who champion N/L do so with the reason that they can 'protect' their hands. Which, imo, shows a lack in their games. These tend to be the same guys who will argue that you don't want lots of callers preflop when you have AA.

b

[leehrat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

They weren't around hardly anywhere other than private games. Not around anything like they are today. However, it's been shown that because of the edge of the better players, worse players will go bust faster.

[ QUOTE ]
WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see that tested. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Takes a bit more than just preflop. Besides, same can be said for N/L if you just play premiums, can't it?

But, yeah, it can be boring. Especially for those that don't know how to watch a hand they're not involved in. But I'll say that many(usually a live player spouting at my table) I hear who champion N/L do so with the reason that they can 'protect' their hands. Which, imo, shows a lack in their games. These tend to be the same guys who will argue that you don't want lots of callers preflop when you have AA.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

some guys also don't like 30-50k hand breakeven streaks or the aggravation and psychological trauma caused by constant suckouts. it's a matter of preference. i think it's commendable that others can deal with limit, but some of us have a hard time doing that, especially those who want a more consistent form of poker income.

[sandsmarc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm stating my own expeience having played limit for over 25 years. There is an art to playing limit. If you are very good, which I am, the money does flow in on a consistent basis. If that has not happened for you, you're just not a good limit player.

I also happen to be a very good NL player also. So I know the skills for each are very different. NL is actually quite a bit easier. It's all about reads, the math is usually trivial. I'm very sensitive and able to read people well. In limit, it's more math and discipline. It's pretty straightforward to always be putting in your money with the best of it. But you do have to be really disciplined. It's extremely easy to get out of line and lose your small edge.

It is not an accident that NL cash games were unheard of in this country prior to the recent fad, probably started by the notoriety of the WSOP and the movie Rounders. NL games highly favor skilled players, short or long term. The fish lose quickly and often violently. The games dry up. This WILL happen in due course. Limit poker offers more temporary protection for a fish because he can play low enough to sustain long term small losses that are never ruinous.

I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.

The golden age of NL poker is a temporary state. Enjoy it while it lasts. I know I will. The NL games in Atlantic City are very sweet right now. The limit games are also soft as the steady stream of NL players who get crushed seek "shelter" in the illusory safety of limit poker.

It's just a damn good time to be a poker player these days.

[/ QUOTE ]you are silly. First off, people are referring to the fact that much less % of the time you win in limit than no limit. When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose; now when I play no-limit, 5 losing days in the month is rare for me. The math in no limit is not trivial, I don't really know why you think that. People make math errors frequently and I laugh at them. I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier? Maybe I'm just being naive.

Let me just requote this for a second:[ QUOTE ]
I would say that anyone who hates limit is probably not a very good poker player and probably almost always a lifetime loser.


[/ QUOTE ] WTF??!??!?!? Let me clue you in. Limit poker is boring. Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart. I would HATE to have to grind out limit all day long, but playing no limit is always fun b/c there are no rules for how to win. Calling someone a lifetime poker loser b/c someone doesn't like limit is the dumbest thing I've ever heard <font color="white">in this thread</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

You say: "When I used to play limit, I'd only win slightly more than I lose"

That just tells me you are a bad limit player. A good limit player wins big over time at a very consistent rate. So, if you are a bad limit player, which you obviously are, don't play limit.

NL games are the creature of a moment. They have only been popular for the past 5 years. They will go away in the next few years.

I actually hope I'm wrong on this, but I'm not. You'll see.

NL has NOT been around since the 1970's. It was always played here and there, but it has only been popular in the last 5 years. You are obviously young and don't know what you are talking about.

You say: "Limit poker can be won at almost all levels with a preflop hand chart." That must explain why you can't beat it. You must have forgot to bring your pre-flop hand chart.

One thing is true: Limit poker is boring for players who can't beat it. I don't find it boring at all. But I find ALL poker very interesting. Limit, PL, NL, Omaha8, Stud8, it's all good.

Bottom line is a good player should be solid at all games to be able to take advantage of any opportunity.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
some guys also don't like 30-50k hand breakeven streaks or the aggravation and psychological trauma caused by constant suckouts

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both of these are possible in N/L. Though probably not as often as in limit.

There is also something to be said of the psychological trauma of losing a lot of cash in one hand to a major longshot coming in.

b

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think no limit games will "dry up" in due time; haven't they been around since the 70s or earlier?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, not really. About 5 years ago, when I was in college and learning to play, I would go down to Foxwoods very often. There were never any NL games. Out of the dozens of times I went there, maybe two or three times they got a 5/5 pot limit game (there was no such thing as a "capped buyin" and average stack size would be several thousand dollars). The majority of the poker room (and all the big games) was limit stud and the rest was limit holdem and there was usually one table of limit omaha/8. Sometimes there would be a big mixed game (e.g., 300/600 HOSE).

I played in Atlantic City and Vegas while in college and didn't see any NL. When I played in clubs in New York, there was again a 5/5 PL, but no NL. Really, you only saw NL in tournaments (and side games around big tournaments, I think) and there were a very small number of other games scattered around the US. When I started playing online, there was no NL (or tournaments) at all and really no demand for it because those were such niche games.

This was after Rounders came out, so it is not that. That movie did fuel a ton of interest in poker, but everyone coming in would play limit. It wasn't until the WPT stuff and the rise of capped buyin NL games (I think before this there was one game for a while at Lucky Chances, but that was the only one I know of in the US) that you started seeing people play NL (again, this is not counting tournaments).

[chicagoY]

I do. I had to quit Stars even though I was earning a ton of FPPs and VPPs every day. The loss of big pairs to 5/9 offsuits was too much after awhile. I agree that those guys are the big losers over time but they never seem to lose the roll to me.