AK where I 4bet pf and realize I'm pot committed -- 50NL

[Entropy4]

Yes, after looking at the equity in pokerstove myself, you have to push. I still think the 4-bet is bad. You can't limit AA and KK combos to 1 each. There are 3 AA and 3 KK combos possible that you HAVE TO INCLUDE in your calculations. I personally don't think JJ and AK call the 4-bet all the time, but I don't know the opponent.

My AK stats last month were terrible last month, and it's because I think I overplayed it a lot like you did here. I've been trying to tone my AK play back a lot, I think it's a hand that's easy to overplay and get yourself into trouble.

[Piece of Cake]

Reads can completely change this range.

Can villian smooth call 4bet with AA? AK? QQ-JJ? Will opponent call the push with AK, QQ-JJ postflop?

Do you see why not 5bet pushing AA,KK can be profitable against a villian such as yourself who will push any flop here with AKo but will fold preflop to a 5bet push? What range of hands do you play like this? Is calling your push a +g-bucks proposition for you opponent?

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
KK and AA can be discounted seriously. For one, I have AK. Two, by the time I have half my stack in I'm pot committed. You can push here with AA, KK all day long and should. QQ and AK aren't folding -- or shouldn't be. AK still has 33%+ equity or so against KK. And QQ, again, you don't put half your stack in with QQ and fold, not if you're 4 betting the right opponent. From what I know of villain, he's pushing AA, KK here every time.

Sure, there's a chance he has AA, KK -- I just don't think it's likely. AA, KK should both be pushing here.

Calling a 3-bet with AA, KK in position is much more common and I do it to. Not a 4 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the whole thread, but you are making some serious mistakes in your argumentation here. Just because villain SHOULD push with AA,KK here because you feel pot commited and it would be the right thing to do, doesn't mean, he thinks the same way. Don't discount hands, because you think that villain would not have played them correctly. Instead, he called your 4bet IP and he probably has a very strong hand. If he is decent, he knows he can't call for set value and he knows that he should push AK preflop more often than AA or KK since he can use the fold equity and wants to see all 5 cards. So I think your reasons that he won't have AA, KK here are flawed. I think a push here has no fold equity and is basically spew with two cards to come. If you say he reraises people a little bigger when he thinks you are fos, he obviously has a hand here, because he didn't reraise you light, because he called your big raise. So I'm pretty sure he has a big pair here. JJ+.
So...

JJ: 6 combos
QQ: 6 combos
KK: 3 combos
AA: 3 combos.
18 combos overall.
You have 25% equity against JJ,QQ (not 30 or 33!), 12 against KK and 0.35 against AA.
So a push obviously isn't correct if he holds a pair. Only if he can hold AK, AQ in this spot and will lay it down, a push can be correct.

[Unknown Soldier]

4b is good, push any flop

[TheDivineRod]

Think you gotta push this. He may fold TT-QQ, and if he doesn't you have some outs.

[Lordy]

Don't discount AA,KK. He's probably "trapping". He isn't calling off 1/2 his stack just so he can fold on a low, dry flop.

I think you should c/f here. I think his range is at most JJ+, and probably even KK+ only. If he called pre with JJ-QQ, he IS stacking off on this flop. The only reason to even call with those 2 hands pre is because he puts you on AK and he wants to see a safe flop before putting the rest in.

[FreddyT87]

I consider myself a reasonable TAG and with AA I'd never 5bet all-in here just because it's profitable trapping oppononts who 4bet preflop with a hand like AK, QQ, JJ or even KK. When I 5bet allin, he has a tough spot to call it with QQ, JJ and AK (maybe even KK).

[mrw8419]

4 bet is too big in my opinion make it 17-20. The flop is a c/f, he folds nothing you are ahead of and calls with everything thats ahead of you.

[Kasane]

Well, woke up today and found the advice still pretty split.

To those saying a reasonable TAG won't go ahead and push AA and KK here -- we might be defining this differently. I thought my villain was reasonable, not tricky: an ABC type. I'm no ABC hater, I think it's a great way to learn the game while not spewing chips. ABC also makes certain mistakes. If I thought he would call with AA, KK here I'd have described him as TAG, with some tricky in him, able to make a move.

I don't think I've ever, in my whole poker experience seen anyone but a tricky bad or tricky good player flatcall a 4-bet with AA or KK. And even then not very often. The potential profit just isn't really there over the alternative of pushing. Your opponent is going to be calling in nearly every instance -- or should be, provided you're not playing too tight.

On a 3-bet, in position -- flatcalling with AA, KK is a great play. There's still a lot of money in your opponent's stack, risk/reward is sweet. In the 4-bet spot, it just isn't large enough. Maaaaybe with AA.

I think reads are essential for cutting your opponent's ranges. Heck, it's what we're trying to learn playing micros. It's what I'm trying to learn. You get better and better at judging your opponent and putting them on a range of hands and that lets you make more correct decisions.

With all that said, I'm still not settled myself on this hand against my villain type. Well, I'm pretty convinced the flop push is fine.

Results in white:

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FWIW, my opponent called the push and had QQ. I river a K. Whoo-hoo.

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