How to extract the most from nuts?

[GOONERCAM]

4 queens and eight clubs give u definitely 12 outs. using the simple rule of 2 and 4 u r near even money. also, u could quite possibly have other outs such as a 3rd king or the ace for 2 pairs. even if flopped straight with ace queen u have 8 outs FTW and 4 outs 2 split. its not nearly as bad as u r making out.

[omaha]

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raising this flop after a tight UTG raises/pots it is anywhere from 'meh' to pretty ugly, BTW, because you will either win 500 chips or be all in as a dog the vast majority of the time.

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I disagree, and raise pot on the flop.

Turn then plays itself, he checks, we have the nuts, but have no idea what our stack size is. SOmewhere between half pot and overbet shove if there is not much behind

Often, how much you win with the nuts is dependent upon the other victims hand more than how you played it. If he is just a notch behind you, you stack him, if he has zip, you get zip

[Eagles]

Bet the turn because a set or qq never fold.

edit: raising this flop is suicide.

[shaundeeb]

prob the worst flop raise every look past I have tp/tk and nut flush draw and you will see why.

[TheFoxNL]

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Bet the turn because a set or qq never fold.

edit: raising this flop is suicide.

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indeed dont raise flop just call
and bet out on the turn but not to much make it look weak

[mastr]

vomit to everyone that said raise flop. Definately obvious call. 1200 on turn if he's a tightish player check if he's loose enough that there's a good chance he's drawing dead. Then push river and see if he has the ability to fold a set or Q

[Cornell Fiji]

Call flop.

Bet turn (1200)
The only hands that call any bet on the turn are 99-KK and they will call a big bet so you should make one.

Bet river (1500)
That seems to be the most that he will pay off with QQ.

[Airharley]

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4 queens and eight clubs give u definitely 12 outs. using the simple rule of 2 and 4 u r near even money.

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I agree here, we have a lot of outs to either a tie or the win. If he folds after the raise, then we weren't making any more money on the turn or river. We have position, TP/TK, with draws to the nut flush. I think a raise on the flop accomplishes what we want. We win the same amount when he has nothing, and we build a nice pot for all our outs, making it even harder for QQ or a set to fold.

[DrJ]

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4 queens and eight clubs give u definitely 12 outs. using the simple rule of 2 and 4 u r near even money. also, u could quite possibly have other outs such as a 3rd king or the ace for 2 pairs. even if flopped straight with ace queen u have 8 outs FTW and 4 outs 2 split. its not nearly as bad as u r making out.

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It would actually be 13 - there are 9 remaining clubs.

If he has trips, you are still a serious dog even with 13 outs. You may hit one of said outs and he still gets a boat or quads. I think you're about 35/65 in said scenario. Not pretty.

He could have AQ, in which case you only have 9 outs to win and 3 outs to split. Again, terrible odds. You have a 35% chance to win, 20% (roughly) chance to split, and are losing the other 45% of the time.

Anything else and he is folding.

You can't just count 13 outs and say you are close to even money.

[DrJ]

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If he folds after the raise, then we weren't making any more money on the turn or river.

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And if he doesn't fold, you almost certainly just put in a lot of money as a big dog.