canterbury riverspot

[cdlarmore]

I fire 100% of the time here, and I dont care what others say, I think we see K10 a vast majority of the time, far enough to bet it out. If he has a set, screw it, im loosing a bet, I think we can fold to a raise also.

[Heir_Aparent]

anybody else think we should fold turn

[cdlarmore]

hummmmm, If he is as tag as we think he is, we are 3 outing minimum so i think the turn fold is good...

[scags23]

I think you should never put yourself in a situation to have to fold the turn. I think the turn raise is a horrible play...

[ship it pls]

scags, not sure if you are serious or not - you'll have to elaborate quite a bit more as to why you think folding is never a viable option here and why mixing this line into standard play is such a poor option - am i being leveled, are you posting in the wrong forum, or is there some miscommunication?

[scags23]

No I am not in wrong forum. I have played middle limit hold-em (20-40 to 40-80) for past 2 years as sole source of income. I normally dont post here b/c the stakes are higher and I prefer to just read. However, I have had great success in games like the 30-60 at Canterbury and felt I could speak.
I will elaborate on why I think your turn raise was bad though I thought it was obvious. First off, when a TAG player calls 2 cold in SB then takes lead on flop I would get scared with top pair. I would know that if I raised him on the turn there was a chance of him 3-betting and then I would have to fold. However, the pot is big (I think 5 people called 3 pre-flop and 3 called 2 on flop). Therefore, I would want to show this hand down and not risk folding a split if he had AK. (as I see it the only hand he could have to 3bet the turn that you dont lose to). Therefore, I would never put myself in the position to fold turn. You are way off saying that I think folding is never a viable option. I think when he 3bets you have to strongly consider it; therefore, I would never give him the chance of 3betting me out on turn.
Besides that I said it was horrible because if you think calling down here is too weak (when he checkraises flop), a much better play would be to 3-bet flop. I don't understand the turn raise with the intention on calling down to 3-bet, bet

[scags23]

and ship it, this is my analysis up till river. I know you were asking abt rver line though. Depending on how tight your TAG definition means determines my line. I put him on K-10 and bet river unless I know him to be extremely tight-(not call pre with K10 and not bet set on river), then I check. Not that not calling 2 cold with K10 is extremely tight, but in these wild games I see "tight" players calling 2 with any 2 suited paints.

[ship it pls]

scags, not saying you cannot post here by any means, i greatly appreciate all the feedback - however, your first post was more or less meaningless without rationale behind the thought process...
- i think tag in the canterbury game checkraises a wide range of hands on the flop to try to 1) clear up outs 2) clarify hand strength 3) maximize value...
- since its 2/3 i think sb can hold any of the following and make a reasonable checkraise here: AK/KQ/KJ/KT/AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AT/TT/33/QJ on that flop... many of these hands are significantly discounted since we have seen how the streets played out, but there is a wide range of hands which c/r...
- if i play abc and 3-bet every time i get checkraised with TPTK its going to be a rough night... (this line is not necessarily standard, but a mix in lines)
- my biggest concern on the flop was the 2 cold by mp2, which is either monster or draw here... i expected it would be defined by his action on the turn, if he pushes back against sb i can easily fold my hand here
- with mp2s call and my expectation to be ahead of sbs range i am raising for value (maybe the problem here is the definition of tag - in the canterbury 30 its still considerably looser than the book definition)
- i agree that finding a fold on this turn is quite possible; however, its more or less an intentional payoff because i expect i'm behind and/or dead a big part of the time - but i dont want the pushback throughout the night so i pay it off with the possibility of a outside chance of winning...
- that brings us to the river... without any chat i fire assuming its a KQ type hand protecting with the 3-bet on the turn... however, with the speech it becomes quite different... results coming

[ship it pls]

Results:
i checked behind and he scooped with 33

[illguitar]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it is a 30-60 game. I see people 3 bet kq on the turn here day in and day out. Heck, I see em do it with kj to some extent. Take Stars 30-60 for example see it often.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is a Canterbury 30-60 game...much different.