$16 - AKs bubble with bully

[pifhluk]

you guys are too tight and even im a nit just ask sg

[eurythmech]

preflop: push>fold>>call

[Kevin8423]

So are we shoving because the chips we gain from taking this down preflop in addition to the chips we gain from winning the hand when called far outweighs the times that the big stack calls us and knocks us out?

Thats the only way its reasonable to shove, maybe I'm not realizing how many chips we stand to lose if we fold here and wait for someone to bubble. Could end up giving us a guarenteed 2nd if not 3rd instead of having a chance for 1st.

[Slim Pickens]

Using SNGPT, the only way pushing preflop can be bad play is if SB is calling insanely wide. There seem to be plenty of -EV ways to play this hand that involve limping and folding what is almost certainly the best hand.

[Dr_Wonderful]

I shove this preflop. The big stack is not going to be calling with a very wide range because he knows you have strength by risking your stack when you don't necessarily have to. Limping, min raising, both are terrible IMO, it gives the bully the perfect chance to out play you on any street, which is probably what he did. Either of the small stacks could easily call you with ATC knowing that they are getting all of the dead chips and are getting all in heads up which makes this an even better push. I think that push is completely standard and the only appropriate play here.

[Vrange]

EASY push preflop!

[The Venetian]

Nothing wrong with calling here preflop, OP. I think you played it fine. It's worth giving up 400 chips to you to make the button/BB uncomfortable and force a move by the SB.

If you shove instead of call preflop, you allow the BB to make a far easier decision. If the SB calls your shove, BB folds and hopes you get busted. If the SB doesn't call, the BB has an easy pot odds call to stay alive.

When you just call pf, the onus ships to the SB. If he pushes, the BB likely still has to make the pot odds call (probably assuming you wll fold) and now you can get in over the top w/ AKs against two random hands that BOTH have to beat you. Note again that if you shove first, you let the BB off the hook.

If the SB shoves over your limp and the BB folds, he just becomes further crippled and forces himself essentially all in on the next hand anyway. You can easily throw away 400 chips to let this happen.

I'm sure that just shoving first is +EV and, depending on the spite-call level of the SB, possibly the most +EV play, but I think limping gives a good player the best possibility of handling the situation properly.

[Jago]

Thanks Venetian, good to hear Mr-GoldStar-on-sharkscope agrees with my play.

If the 2 shortstacks had ~1500 in chips then I'd be more inclined to push. I still think pushing PF is a bad move.

[Kevin8423]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with calling here preflop, OP. I think you played it fine. It's worth giving up 400 chips to you to make the button/BB uncomfortable and force a move by the SB.

If you shove instead of call preflop, you allow the BB to make a far easier decision. If the SB calls your shove, BB folds and hopes you get busted. If the SB doesn't call, the BB has an easy pot odds call to stay alive.

When you just call pf, the onus ships to the SB. If he pushes, the BB likely still has to make the pot odds call (probably assuming you wll fold) and now you can get in over the top w/ AKs against two random hands that BOTH have to beat you. Note again that if you shove first, you let the BB off the hook.

If the SB shoves over your limp and the BB folds, he just becomes further crippled and forces himself essentially all in on the next hand anyway. You can easily throw away 400 chips to let this happen.

I'm sure that just shoving first is +EV and, depending on the spite-call level of the SB, possibly the most +EV play, but I think limping gives a good player the best possibility of handling the situation properly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that goes more in depth into exactly what I was suggesting.

[NU Star]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise to 1200 preflop he'll either give you the blinds or let you know he's got a hand he really likes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like 23o a lot here as big stack if hero raised 1200.