Another paired board special - blind battle with wildman

[jba]

also i just noticed that UTG posted, I can dig a 3bet preflop but whatever it's close.

[Apanage]

I would raise preflop anyway.He can hardly 3-bet that often without some kind of hand but you know him better of course. As played I raise flop and fold to a 3-bet.
When I pick up a good draw that must see river I always call down the river when I have a hand that is a possible winner.
The board doesn´t seem that scary if we consider this hand to be a blind fight.The only thing that makes me a little uncertain of our winning chances is that he is still betting [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. But on the other hand if he has nothing he would still bet wouldn´t he? Because he knows that he can´t win the hand otherwise.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
As played I raise flop and fold to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow make the pot big so that it's a crime to fold, and then fold? seriously though why would you ever do this.

[dano]

jba,

could you explain why we still call the river if we raise the turn and he 3 bets or he donks river. I assume it is because you think villain sees the turn raise as a semibluff often enough that he puts in a bluff 3-bet or a bluff river donk often enough to make calling good.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume it is because you think villain sees the turn raise as a semibluff often enough that he puts in a bluff 3-bet or a bluff river donk often enough to make calling good.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that's it. but it's pretty rare for this to be true so it's almost never good to raise the turn here.

[Apanage]

Because 95% of the players at 3/6 don´t three bet here without at least a pair or Ax and if we think that we at best have 4.5 outs I just prefer to fold because I don´t think that is enough. If an ace falls we cannot get away from our hand even if we are dominated. It is easier for villain to get away from his hand if he was foolin around with air or even with a pair.
Calling down without having a clue of what your opponent has is just not my style. I´d rather fold a winner here (very unlikely against most opponents)than to call down like a fish.
I certainly cannot say with confidence that this is right so you can again tell me that I´m wrong.
But I seldom have problems with players openraising from SB after a couple of rounds which is a bonus to be aggressive.

Position is very important and not taking advantage of that with a probable best hand is not good.

Maybe I´m not taking enough consideration to the fact that we have a poster from UTG. But if we think that villain is concerned about this then you should think of folding preflop instead.

[danzasmack]

"Calling down without having a clue of what your opponent has is just not my style. I´d rather fold a winner here (very unlikely against most opponents)than to call down like a fish."

This is a losing style IMO. Raising hard early for information (how else can you know what they have) and then folding late when they tell you otherwise will get you run over. You have to be able to play pots like this one.

This river fold is bad IMO.

Wait a minute Apanage are you saying fold pf? that post has a lot of bad advice IMO.

[BrassMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
"Calling down without having a clue of what your opponent has is just not my style. I´d rather fold a winner here (very unlikely against most opponents)than to call down like a fish."

This is a losing style IMO. Raising hard early for information (how else can you know what they have) and then folding late when they tell you otherwise will get you run over. You have to be able to play pots like this one.

This river fold is bad IMO.

Wait a minute Apanage are you saying fold pf? that post has a lot of bad advice IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, Gehrig will have your head if he reads this, Apanage. He's violently opposed to "raising for information", as he believes that the information you're receiving is often very misleading. For better or worse, I still make a lot of my decisions based on what of helpful feedback I think I might get.

[sethypooh21]

The more I think about it, the more I think 3-betting PF is best - you have a pretty good shot at having the best hand vs. LAGGY steal raise, but don't want to be playing A-rag OOP three ways. And really, once you 3-bet, you are going to showdown unless the board is really ugly for you (79TKQ or the like)

[Apanage]

If I fold flop is that late in the hand?

If you want to continue against a 3-bet on flop that is a borderline call if you don´t think he is capable of outright bluffing. My experince is still that I almost never see someone do that without Ax or a pair unless he is a maniac.

I also think the river fold is bad as the hand was played which I also stated in my first post.

In my first post I also said that I would RAISE preflop.

I was just trying to say that if we thought that villain took in account that there were a poster in this hand and it made him raise only his good hands then a fold preflop would be better.
However I don´t think he is taking that into account so I don´t think of folding preflop.