sick sick hand -200NL 6max

[Riina]

thank you for capturing the exact point of my post!

"wise men just speak when they have something to say; fools speak just to say something"

That being said, ill have to run down some calculations myself later, but i wouldn't care if someone could point out the mathematical flaws in my potodds-decisions in accordance to the implied odds, chance of AK hitting and pushing etc etc.

[AL5AcE]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop my potraise tells him i have a strong hand. Yet, from his point of view there is position involved in my range wich broadens it up considerably(AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo, perhaps AQo). With lots of these hands i can pick the pot up unimproved if we go to a flop and make him lay down the best hand. This opens up the possibility for him to potraise me back with AKs(and perhaps AKo), and force me off most of the holdings in that range, perhaps even make me lay down a pair like JJ or TT. If i would push in return, he could still find a fold without being comitted. Therefor i call his potraise making me call about 54 in a 100-and-then-some pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

This theory exists but it takes massive balls to exploit it with every hand in opponent's range. Therefore more often than not the 4bet from villan is AK, KK, AA. You can't 5bet push vs that range and by calling his 4bet you are giving him money.

If he is solid he won't 4bet preflop to fold out the low end of your range (AJs, AQ, JJ, TT) with a worse hand.

The flop comes with total blanks. He pushes. Would he try to gamble with AKs, knowing that most players are on autocall with any overpair and he could be virtually drawing dead, my guess is not.

If he is doing this line with AK, it IS profitable vs you if he knows what you know.

So I'd fold pf if I wasn't going to call with overpair.

[Renton]

this is a superstandard coldcall pre. Threebetting tens is tehsuck here. And if you 3bet, you have to fold to the 4th bet. As played get ai on flop.

[AL5AcE]

I agree with everything Renton said.

Here's a similar hand from villan's perspective:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

[Riina]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop my potraise tells him i have a strong hand. Yet, from his point of view there is position involved in my range wich broadens it up considerably(AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo, perhaps AQo). With lots of these hands i can pick the pot up unimproved if we go to a flop and make him lay down the best hand. This opens up the possibility for him to potraise me back with AKs(and perhaps AKo), and force me off most of the holdings in that range, perhaps even make me lay down a pair like JJ or TT. If i would push in return, he could still find a fold without being comitted. Therefor i call his potraise making me call about 54 in a 100-and-then-some pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

This theory exists but it takes massive balls to exploit it with every hand in opponent's range. Therefore more often than not the 4bet from villan is AK, KK, AA. You can't 5bet push vs that range and by calling his 4bet you are giving him money.

If he is solid he won't 4bet preflop to fold out the low end of your range (AJs, AQ, JJ, TT) with a worse hand.

The flop comes with total blanks. He pushes. Would he try to gamble with AKs, knowing that most players are on autocall with any overpair and he could be virtually drawing dead, my guess is not.

If he is doing this line with AK, it IS profitable vs you if he knows what you know.

So I'd fold pf if I wasn't going to call with overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for your reply, i think i agree with what you say.
As for the hand, ive ran down some calculations, and in retrospect, i agree i should have folded preflop. And its not close either! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It would be if AKo was added (still negative though), but i think that would too much wishful thinking. So live and learn i guess...

Because of the fact i made a bad call preflop, i think i still have a valid and right option to fold on the flop.

thanks all,

[wrschultz]

EDIT: Fold preflop.