Turn Decision with KK - Page 3

patrick10 · #21 03-22-2007, 05:24 AM

if the ace is a bad card for villain to bluff doesnt that mean if he bets he is ahead? making the CRAI bad ?

What line do you take when villain checks turn behind and river comes non diamond ?

Clayton · #22 03-22-2007, 05:25 AM

im saying its bad for villain to bluff RAISE hero, not bluff BET when hero checks

and if villain checks and river is a blank, i prob checkcall most rivers.

tozzy · #23 03-22-2007, 05:27 AM

i fear im overthinking this now, but if villain is solid and is viewing HIS hand from HEROS point of view, how does he think we could be convinced he holds an ace?
if hes a random donk he isnt this doing is nor can we we be sure he hasnt got the ace, but yeah, that just crossed my mind.
edit: what hands is villain checking behind on the turn and then going to bet the river with when we check again?

patrick10 · #24 03-22-2007, 05:28 AM

ty for the schooling clayton =]

have you posted any other vids besides the 40 min 4 table one?

Clayton · #25 03-22-2007, 05:32 AM

tozzy you sound confusing now :O

patrick no i have not, videos are evil

tozzy · #26 03-22-2007, 05:38 AM

see, what i mean is that from what villain has done in this hand, an ace combination is one of his unlikeliest holdings. if he knows we do know this, how can he see this ace as a good bluffing spot anymore? just because we show weakness? we have reraised PF so we either have QQ+ or a strong ace - that has hit now, whilst his play looks like a flushdraw or a small overpair.
i think the danger of checkraising (and esp. c/c the river for bluffinduce) is that were gonna checked down and loose alot of value here.

Clayton · #27 03-22-2007, 05:48 AM

because villain doesnt think that far ahead. its 1/2 nl.

villain sees the ace and is like, oh, let me make this little stab bet, maybe he will fold.

tozzy · #28 03-22-2007, 05:51 AM

yeah, as said, i was overthinking this. do you really check the river when he checks the turn behind?

Clayton · #29 03-22-2007, 05:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, as said, i was overthinking this. do you really check the river when he checks the turn behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

he doesnt put any more money in unless he's bluffing. like, hes not calling 1/4 pot bet with 77. but he may bluff 1/2 pot to try and fold TT

Hanzfat · #30 03-22-2007, 09:49 AM

I think he has TT/JJ/QQ here 80% of the time. Most people would push AdKd on that flop and I think he folds all the other A's that have missed the flop. Therefore I'm not that worried about the A and think if you were ahead on the flop you're most likely ahead now.

I like the check raise all-in on this turn. Extracting value from the rare times he is floating with air or a flush draw. However, I think he will check behind 80-90% of the time.

Now what to do on the river becomes more complicated and I'm not entirely sure on the play. If it comes low and diamondless is a small value bet out of the question? Something you think he will call with TT-QQ. Thoughts?