finally, i post a hand where my play is *not* weak-tight

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
if that's the range you put him on fine, but I would be pretty surprised if it was that wide. Also I don't really buy this chip position stuff. Pretty sure your EV with a 15k stack is really really close to half your EV with a 30k stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. But I'm faced now with a decision that seems to me to be roughly neutral cEV (this is debateable, but nobody has yet offered a compelling argument that it isn't). I'll have t20k 100% of the time if I fold, t15k 65% of the time I call, and 35% of the time I'll have t30k. Given the stage of the tournament (still 1000-1200 players left), I'd prefer to err on the gambly side. Besides, even if I lose, if anybody pays attention to me calling all-in with 9 high, it may some positive side effects (less likely to attack my blinds, more likely to put me on a wide range of hands).

So I guess the question could be rephrased -- given the option in a Stars tournament, would you rather

(a) maintain your M=25 stack 100% of the time,

(b) drop to M=19 stack 65% of the time and increase to M=37.5 stack 35% of the time, or

(c) it really makes absolutely no difference?

[Slap My Jack]

A limp reraise UTG with multiple callers to the UTG reraiser, gutsy if he has cards that make your call correct. Even with your potodds, I don't think you'll be good calling an all-in on the flop with your top pair of eights or nines, I think you'll need to flop something like two pair at least here. You're not even suited. You'll get better trash hands to play and you have the stack to make waiting worth it.

[nath]

I think villain's range for a limp-reraise UTG is quite a bit stronger than you suggest.
Specifically i think the move suggests an overpair which is why the play is no good here. You might see AK.

[ImOnWheels]

yea I see where the math takes me.. prob worth a call.. however the limp-push is such a strong move that his range is real tight. aa-qq,ak maybe jj and aq. He's gotta figure he will get a call.

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
I think villain's range for a limp-reraise UTG is quite a bit stronger than you suggest.
Specifically i think the move suggests an overpair which is why the play is no good here. You might see AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't buy this. Like I mentioned earlier, Villain has done some odd things, like playing mediocre hands strongly at unwarranted times, and playing strong hands slow in bad spots.

When I see a limp-reraise from a player like Villain with a 16xBB stack in what seems like a perfect spot for a squeeze play, I think the range is wider. Maybe I'm much too loose, but I regularly call these limp-reraises (albeit usually with a much stronger hand than 98o) in these small buy-in tournaments, especially from medium to short stacks, and when I do I see mid/low pocket pair or big broadway cards far more often than AA or KK. It's as if they decided to limp and see a flop, then when they get raised figure there hand is too good to fold so they might as well push.

[Slap My Jack]

But it isn't a perfect situation for a squeeze play with so many people already having invested their chips.

If his range is any broadway/pair, any pair, or any broadway, you are still about a 2-1 dog at best against that range.

With your stack size, I wouldn't feel any pressure to take this flip.

But if you have definite reads on the guy, there isn't really much for other people to argue with. It seems like an even money call at best if my crappy math is right and your ranges are right.

[deankeaton7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Horrible calling station play. Fold to the first raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there's 1 person left to act after me, and I'm currently getting 1200+1200+800 + antes : 800, or 4:1 on a call. If UTG calls (as expected), then I'm getting 5:1 pot odds. Do I really want to fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Playing a multiway pot OOP with a drawing hand (with the possibility of getting reraised). If I was UTG, im only limping with hands that I can reraise with. In fact, theres no way im limping with AQ, 88-QQ. So i think your range is a little generous for most players.

[deankeaton7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Horrible calling station play. Fold to the first raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there's 1 person left to act after me, and I'm currently getting 1200+1200+800 + antes : 800, or 4:1 on a call. If UTG calls (as expected), then I'm getting 5:1 pot odds. Do I really want to fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Playing a multiway pot OOP with a drawing hand (with the possibility of getting reraised). If I was UTG, im only limping with hands that I can reraise with. In fact, theres no way im limping with AQ, 88-QQ. So i think your range is a little generous for most players.

[/ QUOTE ]

And by yes, i meant, yes, fold.

[fro_dude]

It is a good play based on the reasons you have given, but this play is also player dependant. Many players, including myself would not call off >1/4 of a stack with 89o. To me this looks like a limp-reraise with a strong hand, therefore I believe you may be low on his range. A pocket pair is possible, but a weak ace or KQ I believe is very unlikely. I don't believe someone would make this play with a hand so easily dominated. From his perspective, his FE is quite high, and his UTG limp could give the illusion of strength, therefore dissuading a call. Arguments from both sides, but like I said earlier, this play definitely player dependant. Mind you aren't at a point in the tournament where stack preservation is prevalent, but more imporant is chip accumulation...to be honest i'm really on the fence here.

[Proofrock]

So Villain tabled AJo, I flopped a pair, but he rivered a straight. My read was that his range was wide, and though this is open to debate, the results at least confirm that a hand as weak as AJo is in the range. I don't want this to be confused with this being results-oriented. i had a read, i went with it, and the result confirmed it. if he had shown AA, which was part of the range, i would not have been able to confirm that he had a reasonably wide range.

Regardless of this, my question still stands:

In this situation, when offered what you perceive to be a roughly neutral (possibly a little + or - cEV) choice do you call or fold?