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#21
03-08-2007, 02:44 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
[ QUOTE ]
I think I advocate seeing more flops than anyone in this forum, but given the player description AND the description of the game, is folding preflop so bad here? I probably never would but then again I'm hardly ever in the type of game described by howard. I think you put too much action in on the flop. The guys in this 20 40 game never raise here without a very strong hand and the possibility of you getting 4 bet (which happened here obviously) is pretty high. I think check calling or bet/calling the flop here is better. Usually they will check behind the turn with AK or whatever and bet pairs, so you will know where you're at in the hand without having to invest 4 small bets on the flop when you are pretty much only drawing to 9 outs. The river is a check CRYING call, perhaps even a check fold. As Nate said, there are quite a few regulars in that game that I would be very comfortable check folding the river to. [/ QUOTE ] This is all good. Maybe I should've folded pf. I played the flop strongly because I thought that THIS player was capable of folding a small pair or A-Face on the turn UI to continued aggression. 
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#22
03-08-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll mention that today's main game was one of the worst I've played in for months. Very taggy w/ too many decent players. Normally I would leave and come back but on Tues. and Wed. nights the tourny will prevent me from getting a seat for at least 2-3 hours so I'm waiting it out. [/ QUOTE ] I just wanted to mention that this is a poor reason to play in a terrible game. I have no problem playing 8/16 in this spot if I'm at the casino and really want to get some pokering in. I want to make sure I have a significant edge over the table when I play. As for the hand, I agree with Nate.'s posts.
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#23
03-08-2007, 03:13 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'll mention that today's main game was one of the worst I've played in for months. Very taggy w/ too many decent players. Normally I would leave and come back but on Tues. and Wed. nights the tourny will prevent me from getting a seat for at least 2-3 hours so I'm waiting it out. [/ QUOTE ] I just wanted to mention that this is a poor reason to play in a terrible game. I have no problem playing 8/16 in this spot if I'm at the casino and really want to get some pokering in. I want to make sure I have a significant edge over the table when I play. [/ QUOTE ] You're right, I should've switched games. This hardly ever happens though and I figured it would change w/i an hour or so.
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#24
03-08-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
Good point.
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#25
03-09-2007, 10:19 AM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
It must be nice to play a game where 77 and Axs are in a UG raiser's range (typically), and to be able to leave the table when it isn't!
You put in way too much action here on the flop, where there's no way you take it down unimproved. Seriously, blank-blank is an easy call-down in position with AK, maybe even AQ. c/c, c/r, c/c line is best. Giving up too much with b/f river line. Could possibly be folding best hand to tricky opponent. B/F line is becoming more prevalent on river, which I occasionally bluff raise on end if I see several B/F lines taken in previous hands by an opponent. B/F should be used judiciously except against passive loose opponents, or TAGs on certain boards. Not one of those boards plus bloated pot size due to flop action...
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#26
03-09-2007, 12:30 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
For the bet/fold to be be better than the check/call on the river,your opponent must be able to both 4-bet the flop & call the river without an overpair.Not very likely,imo.
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#27
03-09-2007, 12:47 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
[ QUOTE ]
You put in way too much action here on the flop, where there's no way you take it down unimproved. Seriously, blank-blank is an easy call-down in position with AK, maybe even AQ. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think AK or AQ is an easy call down when faced with very strong aggression. I mentioned above that I was going to lead the turn and even the river UI on cards that looked safe to me until he 4 bet the flop and I knew that that likely wouldn't work. This line works pretty well for me against the typical players in the game but I'll give you that it may have been the wrong thing to try against this particular opponent. [ QUOTE ] B/F line is becoming more prevalent on river, which I occasionally bluff raise on end if I see several B/F lines taken in previous hands by an opponent. B/F should be used judiciously except against passive loose opponents, or TAGs on certain boards. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. My main problem w/ the b/f line being regularly used is that if I see a player who does it a lot I'm going to start raising him a lot of the time w/ nothing.
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#28
03-09-2007, 02:45 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
I think I played with you some last night, that game sucked for a good 2 hours before it was good again. What's your name? I just started playing again at the CAZ again this month.
I also don't see myself bet-3betting draws here against most tag UTG raisers in this game. It seems that far too often these players don't play that aggresively unless they have a big hand, but maybe I'm just weak-tight. I guess it's possible they could still have 99, Ak-AJd though.
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#29
03-09-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: Marginal hand on the river. Opinions sought.
What do you guys think about checkraising this flop rather then bet-3bet?
If he 3bets you on the flop then checks the turn you get a free card + you can bluff the river If he just calls the checkraise you'll often take it down on the turn with a bet against a no-pair hand. thoughts?
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