I can get one for sure, but can I stack two donkeys?

[GemeniSWE]

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I would reraise preflop if you are going to play the hand. You are OOP and against these maniacs you have to narrow down the field. I know you should (normaly) see a cheap flop with SC but your hand is pretty strong and OOP I would raise in order to use a scare card on flop (if it comes one).

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This is completely off. Why would you like to get it HU (maybe 3-ways) OOP vs a LAG in a big pot with SC? What's your plan for the flop? You'll probably end up spewing or just check/folding unless you hit something, and SCs don't often hit anything with SD value, which you like against a LAG. Getting to the flop cheap and multiway is the best line here.

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As I said, its a different line to the way the hand was played. The ABC poker is the way it was played here but sometimes I wanna play my SC differently.

Its really MP that is the agressor post flop here (there is no stats on him, only the button and the BB. But if MP=Button I still wanna raise some times). If I raise preflop I could use an Ace on the flop as my scare card. If LAG is limping I put them on a low/middle par or a couple of face cards or FD. If an Ace comes and I bet and villain raise me I´m out if I dont get a piece of the flop .

I just find it very hard to play against these type of opponents and I am really trying to play these hands different ways to mix up and develop my game.

[Proofrock]

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step 1: SHOVEZO
step 1a: get called in 2 spots
step 2: ???
step 3: PROFIT

easy push

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Steps 1 and 3 seem clear, as there's no way for me to play this that isn't going to be profitable. I'm not sure a push is better than a call, though. Here's my reasoning:

MP feels he has a strong hand (not a draw) and will stack off no matter what the river brings because (1) he'll have about 1/2 pot bet left, and (2) he's a donk and he just min-raised me twice. No matter what I do, the outcome with respect to MP is the same.

If I call, BB will call with anything he has, and may re-raise anything that would call my push. His hand is very wide at this point: Top pair+, straight draw, flush draw, pair + gutshot, overcards + gutshot, whatever. Isn't it possible there is more value here in inducing him to call on the turn, and thereby making it more likely he'll stack off on the river, seeing that he's getting pretty good pot odds to call my river push?

[willw9]

Make it $140 to really build this sucker.

[MTSuper7]

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If I call, BB will call with anything he has, and may re-raise anything that would call my push. His hand is very wide at this point: Top pair+, straight draw, flush draw, pair + gutshot, overcards + gutshot, whatever. Isn't it possible there is more value here in inducing him to call on the turn, and thereby making it more likely he'll stack off on the river, seeing that he's getting pretty good pot odds to call my river push?

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I can't tell you how many times I see greedy players get unlucky when someone catches a 4-outer to improve two pair to a full house simply because the greedy player slowplayed a made hand that wasn't a cinch. Also, a lot of the hands in MP's range are drawing hands, right? Doesn't it make sense to charge MP more money before all of the cards are out? In general, don't get greedy thinking about keeping both players in. Raise this pot on the turn. If you're not convinced yet, reread your post and think about what happens if a blank hits on the river (which is the most likely outcome). I don't think a slowplay has as much +EV as pushing the turn, especially if you're convinced that MP will come along for the ride no matter what you do. Forget about UTG - after MP's mini-raise, the pot's at $170. Raise to somewhere in the $140 range, giving MP about 3-1 odds on his river card (he won't be getting the right odds to call if he's on a flush or straight draw, but sounds like he will either call or raise based on your take).

[Proofrock]

Raising to $140 is dumb - either I push or call, but betting in between makes no sense here.

MP has a made hand -- 2 pair or set probably. He doesn't minraise after a bet and a call with a draw. BB could have a draw, but he's at least as likely to have a hand like top pair that has no chance of winning.

[RiverHebrew2]

I'd minreraise b/c this idiots will have no idea what it means.

[Nick Royale]

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I would reraise preflop if you are going to play the hand. You are OOP and against these maniacs you have to narrow down the field. I know you should (normaly) see a cheap flop with SC but your hand is pretty strong and OOP I would raise in order to use a scare card on flop (if it comes one).

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This is completely off. Why would you like to get it HU (maybe 3-ways) OOP vs a LAG in a big pot with SC? What's your plan for the flop? You'll probably end up spewing or just check/folding unless you hit something, and SCs don't often hit anything with SD value, which you like against a LAG. Getting to the flop cheap and multiway is the best line here.

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As I said, its a different line to the way the hand was played. The ABC poker is the way it was played here but sometimes I wanna play my SC differently.

Its really MP that is the agressor post flop here (there is no stats on him, only the button and the BB. But if MP=Button I still wanna raise some times). If I raise preflop I could use an Ace on the flop as my scare card. If LAG is limping I put them on a low/middle par or a couple of face cards or FD. If an Ace comes and I bet and villain raise me I´m out if I dont get a piece of the flop .

I just find it very hard to play against these type of opponents and I am really trying to play these hands different ways to mix up and develop my game.

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If your line was a "I play this way 2% of the time to mix it up"-line, then you need to state it in your first post. But fact is, most often you don't need to mix it up against lags and as a standard line your line is silly. And playing lags oop is not as easy as you make it, they will float with nothing and bluff alot. SC doesn't fare well HU oop against them.

[GemeniSWE]

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I would reraise preflop if you are going to play the hand. You are OOP and against these maniacs you have to narrow down the field. I know you should (normaly) see a cheap flop with SC but your hand is pretty strong and OOP I would raise in order to use a scare card on flop (if it comes one).

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This is completely off. Why would you like to get it HU (maybe 3-ways) OOP vs a LAG in a big pot with SC? What's your plan for the flop? You'll probably end up spewing or just check/folding unless you hit something, and SCs don't often hit anything with SD value, which you like against a LAG. Getting to the flop cheap and multiway is the best line here.

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As I said, its a different line to the way the hand was played. The ABC poker is the way it was played here but sometimes I wanna play my SC differently.

Its really MP that is the agressor post flop here (there is no stats on him, only the button and the BB. But if MP=Button I still wanna raise some times). If I raise preflop I could use an Ace on the flop as my scare card. If LAG is limping I put them on a low/middle par or a couple of face cards or FD. If an Ace comes and I bet and villain raise me I´m out if I dont get a piece of the flop .

I just find it very hard to play against these type of opponents and I am really trying to play these hands different ways to mix up and develop my game.

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If your line was a "I play this way 2% of the time to mix it up"-line, then you need to state it in your first post. But fact is, most often you don't need to mix it up against lags and as a standard line your line is silly. And playing lags oop is not as easy as you make it, they will float with nothing and bluff alot. SC doesn't fare well HU oop against them.

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I agree that (in general) SC is not good HU against LAG´s, and it´s NOT my standard line. But the whole idea of this forum is to discuss hands and come up with alternative solution to different problems, right? I really appreciate the discussion!

However, going back to the hand I hope you understand that the line played in the hand is good played but my intention was to highlight a differnt line to get a discussion going...

[Nick Royale]

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I can't tell you how many times I see greedy players get unlucky when someone catches a 4-outer to improve two pair to a full house simply because the greedy player slowplayed a made hand that wasn't a cinch.

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2-pair won't ever fold so that doesn't matter at all.

[Nick Royale]

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Top pair+, straight draw, flush draw, pair + gutshot, overcards + gutshot

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This range is more likely to pay on the turn imo.