$27 Shortstack AA

[shbball7]

shove if you raise to 600 people are gonna wonder what ur doing so just shove.

[StregaChess]

Given that most of the table is tight I’d strongly consider putting 500 in. Many flops I'd be checking and begging them to put me in.

However I don’t think anyone could say a shove is wrong.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
Now consider the other extreme. We raise for all of our chips except one, then bet that last chip on the flop. Our opponent again only calls that one chip flop bet if he makes a pair or better. Obviously in this scenario we are much better of not shoving, but instead raising all but our last chip.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK... this is only true because of the extremely remote chance that our opponent will runner runner us.

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhere in betweem these two extremes is the equilibrium point and it is probably right aroung 500-550 chip preflop raise followed by a flop shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's NOWHERE NEAR. Take, just for the sake of argument, the case where we're against KJo on a T62 board. We're 96% to win in that situation. Even if he calls for just 10% of the pot, that's good for us.

The equilibrium point is going to involve raising so much preflop that it's going to be equivalent to a shove, because our opponent will never fold postflop. If our opponent has enough left postflop to consider folding, there are no hands he'll consider folding that we actually want him to fold.

[Hercules]

I like to raise to 500, just to disguise my steals, which i will raise the same amount.
Raising to 600 doesn`t invite to many calls, but i don`t mind taking a flop.

[AMT]

it simply depends on my image and the table with heros chip position here. with this stack, sometimes ill shove and sometimes ill try to induce action with a smaller open. i certainly dont think shoving is "bad" here.

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
I like to raise to 500, just to disguise my steals, which i will raise the same amount.
Raising to 600 doesn`t invite to many calls, but i don`t mind taking a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? what are you committing 33% of your stack with here on a steal? that is messed up. Don't worry about disguising your hand at this level, people aren't paying attention.

Also, anything but pushing here is really really bad. Not until you get closer to 10-12 bbs would I ever think about making some other raise.

[Fammy]

I think you have to shove...not for this hand...but for future hands. If you shove on your ok hands, and raise on your great hands you are giving away too much information, especially if you have shoved the previous 2. If I am sitting at this table looking at your chip stack and I know anything about some of the theories of STT, I can see that you are still not sitting on 10BB. A bet less than all in from UTG is going to look mighty fishy to me. Now, let's take this one step further. Assume you do raise to 600, and are called...just like you want to be, but say the call comes from the SB, the CO or both. There is some chance that after the flop, even if you shove, they are going to look at the pot and...even though based on odds if they knew what you are holding would be making a mistake...decide to call all in. That is great and a high likely-hood you have won the pot, but you will have also shown your hand down. Again, if I am paying attention as a surviving player, I will have a lot of information available. The only saving grace for this issue is that this tourny is probably not going to last a whole lot longer, but I, as I am sure a lot of you, take notes on this kind of thing and I guarantee this will be going into a note on you so I can see what you are doing in the future (we all have our habits, and something like this becomes ingrained).

Of course if you know what you are doing and believe that others are watching, this can also be reversed (i.e. if you really need chips and you think your opponents believe you will only standard bet with great hands, you can do this with garbage and potentially take down the pot) but I don't believe you can count on that.

All in all, I think that once you get into your realm of shoving, you shove until you are out of your realm of shoving. It is just a better way to disguise what you are doing.

Fammy

[Hercules]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like to raise to 500, just to disguise my steals, which i will raise the same amount.
Raising to 600 doesn`t invite to many calls, but i don`t mind taking a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? what are you committing 33% of your stack with here on a steal? that is messed up. Don't worry about disguising your hand at this level, people aren't paying attention.

Also, anything but pushing here is really really bad. Not until you get closer to 10-12 bbs would I ever think about making some other raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course i am never steal-raising with 12BB.
You got me wrong here.
But, as you said, people don`t pay attention at lower levels, so they don`t see the difference between stealing with 20BB and "stealing" with 10BB...

[DaN_05]

Considering you've shoved previous two hands I like shoving here again cos you get looked up more than if you standard raise IMO.