Dave Fromm's 6-max limit DVD, any reviews?

[J.A.Sucker]

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And I quote from the first DVD - "because gambling is fun". I cracked up you said that!

TT

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So did everyone else on the set. I think we had to edit it the first time because they were all laughing when it came out in real time... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[J.A.Sucker]

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Watched the first two dvd's so far. Very nice usage of "Check raise him out of his seat"

Oh, the content is good, too, but I kept noticing all the little references (like 2 off the button being labled HJ).

Dave - were you in front of a blue screen? The set behind you looked very CG.

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There was a neutral background of some sort used. It wasn't weatherman style, but more like one of those curtains reminscent of 4th grade photo day.

Glad you liked the content.

[J.A.Sucker]

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I have watched the first two DVD's so far and will probably post a full review after having watched all 3 a couple of times. J.A. Sucker's recommended playing style differs from my own quite a lot in many spots, which probably goes quite a ways explaining why I don't beat the 6-max games like I should, and adopting a lot of what he recommedns will at least intially take me out of my comfort zone. Long term, however, I think this set will help me improve immensely and increase my win rate substantially, especially as the games get tougher.

I cannot imagine how any even halfway serious shorthanded player would not buy this set for a mere $59. IMO, it would be equivalent to saying a couple of years ago that you were not going to buy Ed Miller's SSHE.

I cannot wait for the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to hear the positive feedback. When trying to make some changes in your game, remember that you should apply small, subtle changes to not get too far out of your comfort zone. Your game, like all of ours, should be a gradual evolution. Best of luck!

I cannot wait for the book, either.

[MrEngenic]

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I found the videos quite interesting. There are two big differences between your play and stoxtraders (I watch his videos) and that is that you donkbet alot and he doesn't ever donkbet. You also seem to call a lot in the small blind against a steal.

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What makes you think you never see a leading bet from Stox? It is often part of his decision making process.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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I mostly meant HU on the flop with no preflop aggressor, should have been more specific. Also, in many scenarios in his videos stox checks and sees what happens where Fromm bets out.

Eg.

Hero calls with QJo in BB after button raise, sb call.

Flop:
T93r

In his videos I think stox mostly checks and calls if sb calls buttons cont-bet, but checkraises either the flop or turn if sb folds, where fromm would bet into the preflop raiser.

Eg2.

Hero calls 87s in sb vs CO raise, BB calls
Flop Q73
Hero bets

Again, I think stoxtrader usually checks here (assuming that he miss-clicked preflop and called rather than bet/folded...) and don't bet. If the action is bet and raise behind him he folds, but he checkraises a check-bet action.
I also don't believe that betting out puts more pressure on BB than check raising. I didn't get that one at all.


Not that the DVDs were good, they were. Especially about being extra tight in EP and 3bet liberally in LP.

Maybe stox will read this and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.
:-)

[MrEngenic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have watched the first two DVD's so far and will probably post a full review after having watched all 3 a couple of times. J.A. Sucker's recommended playing style differs from my own quite a lot in many spots, which probably goes quite a ways explaining why I don't beat the 6-max games like I should, and adopting a lot of what he recommedns will at least intially take me out of my comfort zone. Long term, however, I think this set will help me improve immensely and increase my win rate substantially, especially as the games get tougher.

I cannot imagine how any even halfway serious shorthanded player would not buy this set for a mere $59. IMO, it would be equivalent to saying a couple of years ago that you were not going to buy Ed Miller's SSHE.

I cannot wait for the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to hear the positive feedback. When trying to make some changes in your game, remember that you should apply small, subtle changes to not get too far out of your comfort zone. Your game, like all of ours, should be a gradual evolution. Best of luck!

I cannot wait for the book, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol
I was way out of my comfort zone when I tried to apply some of the things from the DVD in my first session after watching the DVDs. I think the step-by-step approach is better.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[steamboatin]

I think these might be the best ones yet. The production and sound quality is greatly improved. The hands he check raises with has my weak tight A-hole puckering.

Damn I still have a lot to learn.

[Adman]

I love the DVD's as I stated earlier but I must admit, I am uncomfortable with some of the examples provided within. 3 betting and isolating an early position raiser with T9 or mid strength suited connectors like 89s? Against a lot of the aggressive opponents I play against that play can only possibly be trouble. First off, they are likely to cap, and, a lot of the TAG opponents I play against in the short games actually have quite reasonable opening standards for UTG- they open with stuff like AT, KJ etc as a minimum. Secondly, unless the early position player is a total moron who raises UTG with garbage, what can you beat when you isolate with weak hands like that? When the flop comes A, K, Q or J high you are going to have to fold when he bets out. If not, expect to be check raised. I understand the benefits of isolating yourself against a lone opponent with the advantage of position but I personally feel that some of the hands Dave uses in the DVD's to illustrate this concept are just too weak and will lead to trouble. Of course I'm probably wrong about this- I don't crush 300/600 limit hold em games like Dave does!

[Worldclass]

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I love the DVD's as I stated earlier but I must admit, I am uncomfortable with some of the examples provided within. 3 betting and isolating an early position raiser with T9 or mid strength suited connectors like 89s? Against a lot of the aggressive opponents I play against that play can only possibly be trouble. First off, they are likely to cap, and, a lot of the TAG opponents I play against in the short games actually have quite reasonable opening standards for UTG- they open with stuff like AT, KJ etc as a minimum. Secondly, unless the early position player is a total moron who raises UTG with garbage, what can you beat when you isolate with weak hands like that? When the flop comes A, K, Q or J high you are going to have to fold when he bets out. If not, expect to be check raised. I understand the benefits of isolating yourself against a lone opponent with the advantage of position but I personally feel that some of the hands Dave uses in the DVD's to illustrate this concept are just too weak and will lead to trouble. Of course I'm probably wrong about this- I don't crush 300/600 limit hold em games like Dave does!

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A couple of points:

Dave’s Advice is obviously very player dependent. We all understand that you aren’t going to 3 bet a rock with 89s that only opens with big pairs. Once you have an idea of your opponents opening requirements you can make the necessary adjustments. Isolating with position is very effective against players that open in early position with any two paint or any pair. You are punishing them from playing incorrectly. When you say what you can beat when you isolate with 8 high, you are missing the point. It’s not what you have, it’s what your opponent doesn’t have.

[*TT*]

Sucker:

I have a bone to pick with an example hand - disk 2 at around 22 mins in CO opens, the hero elects to call from the SB w/7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , BB calls

1st bone - in a 1/2 blind structure game I dont think calling with this weak suited connector hand is correct, however I do think its correct in a 2/3 blind structure game. The problem is position as well as pot size, its a much easier call for the BB to make of course, and I'd even call if the BB guaranteed he would call and not raise - but its a hand we don't want to be playing vs a likely steal position HU because the pot is too small, and also don't want to be caught in the middle if the BB raises. Please clarify.

Next the flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you reccomend a leading bet. This doesnt make sense to me at all (and I'm a huge fan the leading bets! ), we should be trying to isolate the CO since its likely that the hand will be checked around to him, and he will almost always bet that ragged board - why not check raise to play the hand heads up?

PS: please post photos with big hair. I like big hair.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[HOWMANY]

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Sucker:

I have a bone to pick with an example hand - disk 2 at around 22 mins in CO opens, the hero elects to call from the SB w/7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , BB calls

1st bone - in a 1/2 blind structure game I dont think calling with this weak suited connector hand is correct, however I do think its correct in a 2/3 blind structure game. The problem is position as well as pot size, its a much easier call for the BB to make of course, and I'd even call if the BB guaranteed he would call and not raise - but its a hand we don't want to be playing vs a likely steal position HU because the pot is too small, and also don't want to be caught in the middle if the BB raises. Please clarify.

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I found the DVDs to be pretty solid, but some of the hands he suggests calling with in the sb against a likely steal seemed a little loose to me. In the "illusion of action" part I thought that a couple of the examples were a little bit crazy, as going more than 5 bets with a draw seems a little bit pointless, but the point the section demonstrated is still a valid one.

The vast majority of the stuff in it left me with a "yeah, I know that" feeling, but there were a couple moments were I felt like "wow, I don't think I've ever thought of that" and for the low price of $60, those few moments made this a very wise investment, as the new ideas I can incorporate into my game will likely pay for themselves the first time I use them.

I especially enjoyed a lot of the spots where the hero donks into the pfr in various situations. I've been opening up a lot lately in late position before I got the DVDs, so I'm glad to see that I was on the right track, perhaps I can get even looser.