is this lighting money on fire?

[stealthcow]

[ QUOTE ]
What hand are you trying to represent post flop? If I was the villain and this hand was in a vacuum, I'd put you on QQ or KK with a desperate bluff at the end, and snap-call with an A. He's getting 2-1 on the river call, and no hand that beats an A makes sense here given the way you played this (except maybe JJ, and I don't think anyone will fold putting you squarely on JJ).

If you are gonna keep bluffing, shove the turn instead of the river to maximize your fold equity. Also, just fold pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe i am thinking about this all wrong. My range on villain is AA JJ (if he decides to peel but discounted) AQ AK. I dunno how often you guys bluff, or pick off bluffs in this spot, but i figured this dry board is pretty nice because its not one where he can put me on a missed draw etc. I play any set, AK AJ or rivered trips this way.

I would never "bluff" with KK or QQ here.

Also, i asked a few friends, all solid players about the hand from the villains perspective and they all thought it was a "standard fold".

thanks though,

Stealthcow

** Also, I didn't realize this but the converted din'dt show original stack sizes. We both had around 600 to start the hand. So he has about 280 left to call on the river bet. I can't believe i missed that.

[MTBlue]

i've had people snap call this river raise with QQ. I wouldn't suggest it.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
is this lighting money on fire?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.

[ QUOTE ]
its not one where he can put me on a missed draw

[/ QUOTE ]
Uh.. you re-raised PF and bet the flop, checked the turn, your range isn't exactly narrow, here.

[Soul Rebel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hand are you trying to represent post flop? If I was the villain and this hand was in a vacuum, I'd put you on QQ or KK with a desperate bluff at the end, and snap-call with an A. He's getting 2-1 on the river call, and no hand that beats an A makes sense here given the way you played this (except maybe JJ, and I don't think anyone will fold putting you squarely on JJ).

If you are gonna keep bluffing, shove the turn instead of the river to maximize your fold equity. Also, just fold pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe i am thinking about this all wrong. My range on villain is AA JJ (if he decides to peel but discounted) AQ AK. I dunno how often you guys bluff, or pick off bluffs in this spot, but i figured this dry board is pretty nice because its not one where he can put me on a missed draw etc. I play any set, AK AJ or rivered trips this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off let me premise this by saying why I don't post much. Its because NL decisions are so dependent upon history, reads, moods, etc, that its almost impossible to give good advice and have effective discussion without all that information. I generally just get frustrated and usually don't bother. I'm going to try here though.

I can't go into much more depth because I don't know what the villain thinks you reraise with. Clearly your reraising standards are liberal, but does he know that? If we assume that the villain is solid, and he thinks you're solid, I don't think there is any chance he can put you on rivered trips, and he won't think you're reraising a tight a UTG raiser with AJ. That narrows his range for you significantly. While Big Jim is right that your range is not narrow here, I think the important question is what sort of range does the villain put you on.

If I were you in this hand and I held any of the hands you're trying to represent, I would not be checking that turn because the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is a coordinating card and lots river cards will now be scary. So in my mind checking the turn and pushing the river just makes no sense, I would call in a second here as the villain. However, is that something he will consider? Lastly, his $120 looks like a value bet, not a bluff, and thats not the kind of bet-size I like to raise (unless I've seen him bluff that amount in the past obv).

That's basically my thought process, I greatly prefer a pot bet on the turn instead of the river push for these reasons:

-you make it clear that it will be an expensive hand for the villain to showdown because he has to worry about the river too, which should increase your fold equity
-you lose less when he doesn't fold, because you can dump to his checkraise or just give up on the river
-you will be representing a strong hand much more effectively IMO, AK being the most logical.
-pot bets on UB are used very commonly, so you can bet big without it being out of the ordinarily. On other sites where maybe you don't always bet full-pot, this would be a consideration, but it is UB, so mash the BP button.

Hope this helps.

[Big_Jim]

Good post, rebel.