10/20 AJo - Is this standard?

[G_Dollaz]

u can't do the same thing every time in this situation.... I'd often times bet/call the flop, c/c the turn and donk the river w/ the intention of folding 2 a raise.... I think KK, JJ and TT pay us off the most here... there are 18 total hand combinations of KK, JJ and TT, while there are 9 AK, 6 AQ, and 3 QQ which (are the most likely hands to) have us beat, not 2 mention we have 3 outs vs AK, so I think we definitely have 2 get 2 the river here, and IMO the way in which we do so needs 2 vary.... almost any line will work, but I tend 2 use this line more often then some others

[joy2mike]

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u can't do the same thing every time in this situation.... I'd often times bet/call the flop, c/c the turn and donk the river w/ the intention of folding 2 a raise.... I think KK, JJ and TT pay us off the most here... there are 18 total hand combinations of KK, JJ and TT, while there are 9 AK, 6 AQ, and 3 QQ which (are the most likely hands to) have us beat, not 2 mention we have 3 outs vs AK, so I think we definitely have 2 get 2 the river here, and IMO the way in which we do so needs 2 vary.... almost any line will work, but I tend 2 use this line more often then some others

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OK, flip it around to help me with another issue I've been struggling with at slightly higher stakes. You reraise a mid position raiser preflop with KK, JJ, or TT and he just calls. Flop comes A Q X. The preflop raiser bets the flop. What do you do? My experience has shown that it's definitely not a Way Ahead / way behind scenario, and I've been folding against 90% of my opponents. I mean, smallish pot, his aggression preflop... the ace on the flop... his aggression on the flop... He's got to have ATo or better, right?

Having said that, I still think utilizing the way ahead/ way behind scenario is the best +EV for the original post, because it will induce bluffs. The problem with me betting out was:
A) KK, JJ, TT will just fold
B) AK, AQ, AA, QQ will clobber me on the flop or the turn.

In fact, if he just called me down with hands from scenario B he woulda made out much better because I'm definitely betting turn and likely river otherwise.

[mterry]

I usually like a flop donk, followed by a call down because:

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A) KK, JJ, TT will just fold


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This doesn't always happen, and it isn't terrible if they do. You're not collecting much from these guys using any line. They fold and you win...perfect.

It should be said that giving them a free card is at least somewhat bad.

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B) AK, AQ, AA, QQ will clobber me on the flop or the turn.


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True, but check/calling down after one donk bet on flop won't allow them to extract much. Don't get into a situation where you have to bet/call on the bigger streets.

I guess it all depends on 1) your likelihood of inducing bluffs from worse hands, and 2) villain's likelihood of going to the river with worse hands. Higher, more agg games would allow 1) to happen more often, while 2) is pretty much synonymous with small stakes hold'em. I guess in the absence of a read on the player, one should base it on a read of the limit/game tendencies.

[joy2mike]

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I usually like a flop donk, followed by a call down because:

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A) KK, JJ, TT will just fold


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This doesn't always happen, and it isn't terrible if they do. You're not collecting much from these guys using any line. They fold and you win...perfect.

It should be said that giving them a free card is at least somewhat bad.

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B) AK, AQ, AA, QQ will clobber me on the flop or the turn.


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True, but check/calling down after one donk bet on flop won't allow them to extract much. Don't get into a situation where you have to bet/call on the bigger streets.

I guess it all depends on 1) your likelihood of inducing bluffs from worse hands, and 2) villain's likelihood of going to the river with worse hands. Higher, more agg games would allow 1) to happen more often, while 2) is pretty much synonymous with small stakes hold'em. I guess in the absence of a read on the player, one should base it on a read of the limit/game tendencies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Donk and call raise and then call down?
What am I going to beat? I think this is worse than bet/fold. But I still like check/call the best now that someone pointed it out.
I want to understand a little further how betting into this flop and not folding to a raise (since he reraised preflop) can be profitable?

[G_Dollaz]

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I want to understand a little further how betting into this flop and not folding to a raise (since he reraised preflop) can be profitable?

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ok, say u have KK... after this AQx flop hits there are 6 AK possibilities, , 9 AQ possibilities, 12 AJ, 12 AT's and 4 A9s and 4 A8s, and 3 xx (whatever that rag was on the flop), so that's 50 possibilities that have us beat on this flop (I'm assuming he caps w/ QQ or AA)... there are still 48 other possibilities of pp's that he could have raised w/ where he did not hit his set, plus KQ, JQ, etc where u are ahead... so, if the opponent is an agressive one, and is capable of making a raise here understanding that u may have KK or QQ and trying 2 make u lay it down, this may be a profitable play, not 2 mention u also have a backdoor str8 draw, and or 2 more outs to give u a set..... I didn't really talk about flush draws, but but we can take a good guess @ that depending on which cards r suited.... so, like I said about the original post, I like donking the flop, c/c on the turn and donking the river w/ the intention of folding to a raise if we do not improve... not to say this is 100% correct, but this is why IMO it would be profitable..... if anyone disagrees feel free to chime in, I'm open 2 suggestions