wtf AA hand from PS 180 SNG

[Black Aces 518]

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why would you check this flop. this is a very scary board (maybe also for them), but you are allowing anyone on a draw a cheap way to see the next card as well as not getting any true indication of what you are up against.

BTW, i didn't see the blind amounts listed in your post. villain raised to 300 and you reraised to 900. What were the blinds, 150, 100, 50?

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My plan on this hand was to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. So many of the potential hands they might have I am trailing (TT-QQ, AK, QJ, QT, JT, K9 I guess). I didn't want to get pushed off my hand by a draw, esp after committing 1/3-1/2 of my stack with AA, and I didn't want to stack off with one pair on a board like this and a 60 BB stack.

A safer turn I would have raised donkey's bet, but now I'm behind KJ, AJ, etc. Again, my thoughts were to get to showdown cheaply. Any reasonable raise w/regards to the size of the pot is really tying me in. Of course with a donk that would bet 300 into a 3000 pot, I can probably raise to 1000-1200 and get the same effect. Hm.

[Art Vandelay]

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Pre-flop is fine, but I think you have to bet this flop. Yes, a C/R puts you in a tough spot, but there are about 8 zillion turn cards that are bad news, pretty much any club and any broadway will kill your hand or action.

I assume the turn J did not put three clubs on the board?

The t300 bet is tough to read. Either a probe bet to see where he is, or God's own monster. In either case the villain is terrible. I think this bet actually gives you a bit more room to maneuver. Raise here to t1000, and:

1) Fold to a re-raise.
2) Check behind if he calls, and checks the river (which he probably will, once you throw in that kind of milking raise).
3) Take the pot if he folds (which he might).

Once you call the turn bet...hmm. He may be pushing the river because he thinks you feel vulnerable and the pot is worth winning. (Right on both counts, too.) You are behind a whole bunch of hands here: AK, QQ, Jx, TT, and none of these seem impossible. I'm probably folding.

Sam

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I like Sam's line of the turn as well.

[rockin]

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why would you check this flop. this is a very scary board (maybe also for them), but you are allowing anyone on a draw a cheap way to see the next card as well as not getting any true indication of what you are up against.

BTW, i didn't see the blind amounts listed in your post. villain raised to 300 and you reraised to 900. What were the blinds, 150, 100, 50?

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My plan on this hand was to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. So many of the potential hands they might have I am trailing (TT-QQ, AK, QJ, QT, JT, K9 I guess). I didn't want to get pushed off my hand by a draw, esp after committing 1/3-1/2 of my stack with AA, and I didn't want to stack off with one pair on a board like this and a 60 BB stack.

A safer turn I would have raised donkey's bet, but now I'm behind KJ, AJ, etc. Again, my thoughts were to get to showdown cheaply. Any reasonable raise w/regards to the size of the pot is really tying me in. Of course with a donk that would bet 300 into a 3000 pot, I can probably raise to 1000-1200 and get the same effect. Hm.

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Sometimes the cheapest way to get to a showdown is to lead out.

[RichC.]

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OK, so the pot is 2850, you would bet, what, about 1500 on the flop?

That was my initial instinct, but if I do so and get raised, I have 1/2 my initial stack in the pot with AA. It's hard to let go, though I would still have 35 BB left.

Plus, clubs or KQ could happily c/r allin.

Man, I hated this hand.

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Raise more PF, 1200 or 1500. Pot the flop or at least 2k. Also could just be a pushbot and go all-in PF.

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There is no way with blinds at 50/100 that I am pushing 6000 chips in over a raise to 300 with AA (or any hand). Never. I can accept the 1200 as a valid option, though I thought the raise to 900 would be enough to do exactly what I wanted: Get headsup with the raiser. Not many donkeys are open-calling, then calling 8xBB more.

So if you pot the flop, are you folding to an allin?

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Nope. I also might just push the flop and thus give poor odds for a drawing hand to call. The only way you get called is by 2 pair and probably top pair as well, such as AQ. No way that anyone is seeing the turn for cheap or free.

[rockin]

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OK, so the pot is 2850, you would bet, what, about 1500 on the flop?

That was my initial instinct, but if I do so and get raised, I have 1/2 my initial stack in the pot with AA. It's hard to let go, though I would still have 35 BB left.

Plus, clubs or KQ could happily c/r allin.

Man, I hated this hand.

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Raise more PF, 1200 or 1500. Pot the flop or at least 2k. Also could just be a pushbot and go all-in PF.

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There is no way with blinds at 50/100 that I am pushing 6000 chips in over a raise to 300 with AA (or any hand). Never. I can accept the 1200 as a valid option, though I thought the raise to 900 would be enough to do exactly what I wanted: Get headsup with the raiser. Not many donkeys are open-calling, then calling 8xBB more.

So if you pot the flop, are you folding to an allin?

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Nope. I also might just push the flop and thus give poor odds for a drawing hand to call. The only way you get called is by 2 pair and probably top pair as well, such as AQ. No way that anyone is seeing the turn for cheap or free.

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i agree with bettin out the flop, BUT keep in mind you could also be against a made straight already (i.e. AK, possibly K9 & 98 but not as likely considering the preflop action)

[Black Aces 518]

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OK, so the pot is 2850, you would bet, what, about 1500 on the flop?

That was my initial instinct, but if I do so and get raised, I have 1/2 my initial stack in the pot with AA. It's hard to let go, though I would still have 35 BB left.

Plus, clubs or KQ could happily c/r allin.

Man, I hated this hand.

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Raise more PF, 1200 or 1500. Pot the flop or at least 2k. Also could just be a pushbot and go all-in PF.

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There is no way with blinds at 50/100 that I am pushing 6000 chips in over a raise to 300 with AA (or any hand). Never. I can accept the 1200 as a valid option, though I thought the raise to 900 would be enough to do exactly what I wanted: Get headsup with the raiser. Not many donkeys are open-calling, then calling 8xBB more.

So if you pot the flop, are you folding to an allin?

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Nope. I also might just push the flop and thus give poor odds for a drawing hand to call. The only way you get called is by 2 pair and probably top pair as well, such as AQ. No way that anyone is seeing the turn for cheap or free.

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OK. So which flops are you not willing to go broke with with 60BB and AA? I mean, it can't be right to just push any flop ever. This seems like a time not to go broke with one pair. If I push the flop I'm betting 5100 into a 2700 pot. They call with: QQ, JJ, TT, AK, K9, 89 (unlikely) every time and I lose a huge amount of those times. Something like KQ also probably calls, and I win about 2/3 of those times. QJ, JT and QT call, and I lose most of the time here as well. I just don't understand betting 2xpot in a situation where I'm virtually never getting called unless I'm behind, and I'm behind a significant portion of the time.

What I wish I had done is raise the turn to 1200. I didn't factor in what a maroon this guy obviously is, and I didn't want to make a raise that was appropriate for the pot size, not that he'd know one if it bit him on the ass. Then I could make a decision based on his action, and if he pushes the river, it's easier to credit him for something that beats me.

[moldman]

In my experience, the 300 bet on turn into the 2850 pot in these things means absolute monster. Particularly after a check on flop. I would still call, hoping to spike my A, but no way do I call the overpush on the river. You still have too many chips behind to risk something like that, when way too many hands have you beat. That being said, his play of limping with JJ, then checking a coordinated flop like that is horrendous too, but not unexpected for these 180 person things.

[RichC.]

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OK, so the pot is 2850, you would bet, what, about 1500 on the flop?

That was my initial instinct, but if I do so and get raised, I have 1/2 my initial stack in the pot with AA. It's hard to let go, though I would still have 35 BB left.

Plus, clubs or KQ could happily c/r allin.

Man, I hated this hand.

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Raise more PF, 1200 or 1500. Pot the flop or at least 2k. Also could just be a pushbot and go all-in PF.

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There is no way with blinds at 50/100 that I am pushing 6000 chips in over a raise to 300 with AA (or any hand). Never. I can accept the 1200 as a valid option, though I thought the raise to 900 would be enough to do exactly what I wanted: Get headsup with the raiser. Not many donkeys are open-calling, then calling 8xBB more.

So if you pot the flop, are you folding to an allin?

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Nope. I also might just push the flop and thus give poor odds for a drawing hand to call. The only way you get called is by 2 pair and probably top pair as well, such as AQ. No way that anyone is seeing the turn for cheap or free.

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OK. So which flops are you not willing to go broke with with 60BB and AA? I mean, it can't be right to just push any flop ever. This seems like a time not to go broke with one pair. If I push the flop I'm betting 5100 into a 2700 pot. They call with: QQ, JJ, TT, AK, K9, 89 (unlikely) every time and I lose a huge amount of those times. Something like KQ also probably calls, and I win about 2/3 of those times. QJ, JT and QT call, and I lose most of the time here as well. I just don't understand betting 2xpot in a situation where I'm virtually never getting called unless I'm behind, and I'm behind a significant portion of the time.

What I wish I had done is raise the turn to 1200. I didn't factor in what a maroon this guy obviously is, and I didn't want to make a raise that was appropriate for the pot size, not that he'd know one if it bit him on the ass. Then I could make a decision based on his action, and if he pushes the river, it's easier to credit him for something that beats me.

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Based upon reads, which are not on here, but assumming these are guys are the morons you said they are, then these guys might be reraising or pushing with AK, KK-JJ, maybe TT, PF, calling with AQ, KQ, QJs, JTs. K9 and 89 are unlikely but you never know. Given the PF action, you SHOULD be able to rule out QJ and JT but donkeys always draw, you can also rule out KQ unless its suited. Now to the PPs, KK and QQ will reraise with a push PF so all money is in the middle, JJ and TT calls. AQ suited or not makes the call and AK suited will reraise most of the time depending on the player, AKo makes the call. So with all that, what hands do your opponents have? AKo is likely, AQs very good, KK and QQ not likely, JJ is doubtfull given the turn (though we dont know that on the flop), and TT maybe. 99 is also a possibility given the flop would have an OESD. Now what will the action be to you? A made straight will C/R, a flopped set SHOULD be betting to get someone off of their draws. Maybe I fold to a C/R all-in, but whose to say that the C/R is a players way of just protecting their draw, such as OESD or Nut Flush. You can rule out AK clubs since they cant lose the hand, only improve. They would just check call and push the river. With all that said, 2/3 the pot, just Pot the Flop or just push. You could check with the intent to fold but you just might be folding the best hand, however, you have plenty of chips left. If you check the flop you have to be ready to check it down or fold it to any bet, unless of course a K hits the turn or river. So like I said, pot the flop.

-Rich