$10+1, STT SNG, 10-10 in first position play

[djj6835]

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I don't ever want to donk-bet this flop. In my mind, his raise of a flop lead means "I really don't want to let go of this missed AKo" often enough that I can't really fold to it any easier than I could fold to a bet after I check. It seems like a lot of low-stakes beginners try to make these "big folds" early on by putting unknown opponents on a very tight hand range, when really what they need to be doing is putting their opponent on a fairly wide hand range, and then getting lots of chips in when they beat that range.

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I don't understand this. You don't just artificially loosen your opponents range to allow you to play a pot. I don't know of a lot of donks that are rasing this flop with AK. Your typical low stakes player would much rather call in an attempt to hit something on the turn. Bad players rarely raise as a complete bluff, and I think you need to pay careful consideration when they do on a fairly innocuous flop like this one. Especially when they've shown aggression both preflop and now postflop.

[JSH06]

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I don't ever want to donk-bet this flop. In my mind, his raise of a flop lead means "I really don't want to let go of this missed AKo" often enough that I can't really fold to it any easier than I could fold to a bet after I check. It seems like a lot of low-stakes beginners try to make these "big folds" early on by putting unknown opponents on a very tight hand range, when really what they need to be doing is putting their opponent on a fairly wide hand range, and then getting lots of chips in when they beat that range.

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I don't understand this. You don't just artificially loosen your opponents range to allow you to play a pot. I don't know of a lot of donks that are rasing this flop with AK. Your typical low stakes player would much rather call in an attempt to hit something on the turn. Bad players rarely raise as a complete bluff, and I think you need to pay careful consideration when they do on a fairly innocuous flop like this one. Especially when they've shown aggression both preflop and now postflop.

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Donka aren't raising AK as a bluff. They see a low board and think ZOMG I have AK no way he has me beat! I raise! AK should never lose!

[djj6835]

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I don't ever want to donk-bet this flop. In my mind, his raise of a flop lead means "I really don't want to let go of this missed AKo" often enough that I can't really fold to it any easier than I could fold to a bet after I check. It seems like a lot of low-stakes beginners try to make these "big folds" early on by putting unknown opponents on a very tight hand range, when really what they need to be doing is putting their opponent on a fairly wide hand range, and then getting lots of chips in when they beat that range.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't understand this. You don't just artificially loosen your opponents range to allow you to play a pot. I don't know of a lot of donks that are rasing this flop with AK. Your typical low stakes player would much rather call in an attempt to hit something on the turn. Bad players rarely raise as a complete bluff, and I think you need to pay careful consideration when they do on a fairly innocuous flop like this one. Especially when they've shown aggression both preflop and now postflop.


[/ QUOTE ] Donka aren't raising AK as a bluff. They see a low board and think ZOMG I have AK no way he has me beat! I raise! AK should never lose!

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I dunno, it just seem like I rarely am getting raised out of pots. It's typical me betting and them calling with the occasional river bluff.

[Casey333]

IMO the preflop limp creates the main dilemna although a great flop for tens doesnt help. I certainly dont push here,(post flop) actually I have no clue how to play this since I wouldnt have limped in the first place. I would expect a reraise from the QQ after my raise of 120 in your spot (perflop)..now I know he has something...Now ...do I put him on AK and still have a big problem, perhaps...but I'm not pushing.....Play the hand stronger preflop, you'll have a better read next time.

[djj6835]

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IMO the preflop limp creates the main dilemna although a great flop for tens doesnt help. I certainly dont push here,(post flop) actually I have no clue how to play this since I wouldnt have limped in the first place. I would expect a reraise from the QQ after my raise of 120 in your spot (perflop)..now I know he has something...Now ...do I put him on AK and still have a big problem, perhaps...but I'm not pushing.....Play the hand stronger preflop, you'll have a better read next time.

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There are a few reason why I don't really like raising utg with tens. One is that I plan on folding to a reraise which means I'm really marginalizing the hand. I'm giving my opponents an oppurtunity to push me off the best hand preflop if they want to reraise with AK or 99. In the event that you are just called the pot is not more bloated forcing me to play a bigger pot oop which I don't really like. I would mush rather get in cheaply with the intention of calling a small raise if need be. I feel like I can still get enough information after the flop by just betting out on certain boards.

[AtomicDog239]

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I don't ever want to donk-bet this flop. In my mind, his raise of a flop lead means "I really don't want to let go of this missed AKo" often enough that I can't really fold to it any easier than I could fold to a bet after I check. It seems like a lot of low-stakes beginners try to make these "big folds" early on by putting unknown opponents on a very tight hand range, when really what they need to be doing is putting their opponent on a fairly wide hand range, and then getting lots of chips in when they beat that range.

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I don't understand this. You don't just artificially loosen your opponents range to allow you to play a pot. I don't know of a lot of donks that are rasing this flop with AK. Your typical low stakes player would much rather call in an attempt to hit something on the turn. Bad players rarely raise as a complete bluff, and I think you need to pay careful consideration when they do on a fairly innocuous flop like this one. Especially when they've shown aggression both preflop and now postflop.

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I'm not loosening anything. I'm saying his hand range here is much, much wider than most of the people who play at low stakes and post on this board think it is. His aggression could mean pretty much anything, from "ZOMG AK never loses!" to "ZOMG TPTK never loses and A9 is a preflop rasing hand," to "ZOMG QQ overpair," to "ZOMG he checked the flop I can bluff with my 55 now." Given the action, I still can't put him on a tight enough range to fold here since he's just doing something stupid so, so often. Make this a higher buy-in and I see it totally differently, but I really believe people who want to fold an overpair of tens heads-up at this stage are overthinking it. Of course, it's very easy to be results-oriented since we know the actual holdings.

[apefish]

Do I need to reregister to be able to post in this thread?

[djj6835]

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I'm not loosening anything. I'm saying his hand range here is much, much wider than most of the people who play at low stakes and post on this board think it is. His aggression could mean pretty much anything, from "ZOMG AK never loses!" to "ZOMG TPTK never loses and A9 is a preflop rasing hand," to "ZOMG QQ overpair," to "ZOMG he checked the flop I can bluff with my 55 now. " Given the action, I still can't put him on a tight enough range to fold here since he's just doing something stupid so, so often. Make this a higher buy-in and I see it totally differently, but I really believe people who want to fold an overpair of tens heads-up at this stage are overthinking it. Of course, it's very easy to be results-oriented since we know the actual holdings.


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Well I want to bet the flop so this one scenario won't happen. If we limp utg and mp raises to 120. Then we lead at that ragged nine high flop and are raised by mp, what range of hands to you put mp on? I don't think it is nearly wide enough to continue with our hand. Even if you include hands like A9 and a whiffed AK we still need to fold this flop.

[Misfire]

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Fold if reraised pf by QQ, but not if reraised by 99.

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I disagree. You shouldn't call a reraise by 99 when a 9 is coming on the flop. That's just bad poker.

[lou the red]

I love how OP's probable hands for opponent dont even include a possible set hand, because 99 and 66 is just unheard of being raised after someone has just limped in early position, early in a tourney. Limp pf is ok, im thinking something like 70/30 limp/raise, and then bet the pot on flop. First if you get reraised, its going to be at best paired flop, at worst set or over pair. I think the set/overpair will probably call your bet more often and raise turn/river, while the pair from the board will probably raise more often, seeing how they probably want to end the pot there. Sometimes I go gungho with this small overpair, and end up seeing my ass get lit up by a bigger hand by going with your route, and more often then not making a better play when i go by what I am suggesting here, which is a lead out. The decision comes with rather you want to call or fold to the reraise, if its going to be a raise putting me all in, i think I fold, its still hella early in the tourney to be going in with such a small over pair, if i'm min raised, i sit there and think, and go with the gut.