Donking into PFR...

[milesdyson]

the times to donk flops with non-monster hands come up in multiway pots, which we don't see very often at 6-max. the preflop raiser bets almost 100% of the time in 3-way pots, so donking does very little that you can't achieve by check calling. what it can do is allow you to keep the pot fairly small and get away from a hand if the preflop raiser is unlikely to raise without a better hand. but every time i see someone donk a flop, they always call down a raise, whether its in a hand i play or in a hand i see on these forums.

now for a hand example. i am on the button and i raise 2 limpers. SB calls and you call T9s in the BB. the flop is T84r, and it is 5-way to the flop. here i can see a good argument for donking, because when you do succeed in check raising me, the worst hand i have is 99 since im not betting overcards on this flop (and im not raising 77 after two limpers). so either this flop gets donked by someone else, or bets go in when i have the edge. the reason the donk could be best here is because i am not autobetting the flop.

[Unguarded]

I wonder if people would lead out more often if the term "donk bet" didn't exist.

[gehrig]

OP: WHEN I FLOP THE NUTS I LIKE TO GET LOADS OF BETS IN

[Leader]

There are two reasons to donk the flop hu:

- to bet/3b a big hand
- to bluff cheaply

If you have a medium strength hand, donking doesn't really make any sense because what happens is you get less money from weaker hands and more action from hands that are better or about the same as yours then if you had c/r'ed. You're also underrepresenting your hand so you will often be faced with the choice of folding to a possible bluff or calling down a raise probably on the turn. This is a situation you generally want to avoid unless there is some value in putting yourself in that spot.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
OP: WHEN I FLOP THE NUTS I LIKE TO GET LOADS OF BETS IN

[/ QUOTE ]

haha thank you

[PokerSparky]

[ QUOTE ]

now for a hand example. i am on the button and i raise 2 limpers. SB calls and you call T9s in the BB. the flop is T84r, and it is 5-way to the flop. here i can see a good argument for donking, because when you do succeed in check raising me, the worst hand i have is 99 since im not betting overcards on this flop (and im not raising 77 after two limpers). so either this flop gets donked by someone else, or bets go in when i have the edge. the reason the donk could be best here is because i am not autobetting the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great example. I agree that we rarely get a checkraise in when we're ahead in this example, so donking for value makes good sense.

Thank you, I learned something.

[PokerSparky]

[ QUOTE ]
OP: WHEN I FLOP THE NUTS I LIKE TO GET LOADS OF BETS IN

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I'd like to live in your world where flopping a pair of 8s with a 6 kicker and a gutshot straight draw is the nuts in a three-way pot.

I know, I know, I get your point. As I stated before, I checkraise the flop here basically every time. By your statement above, I'll assume you're capping if the PFR three bets, after all we flopped the nuts...right? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Heisenb3rg]

I frequently donk into pr raisers in mutli way pots,
the more agressive they are, the better.

HU theres no point donking, unless they check the flop freqeutnly (who does that?) or freak out and spazz raise anytime someone donks them.

3-way it may only be worth it to knock someone out of the pot when the pot is large.

Here.. Im torn, since your hand is very vulnerable, but id probabily CR

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
"The reason why I'd like to get raised on the flop by the PFR is to get the other guy out. But I probably need a read that PFR would raise with overs to make this play correct."


i have a question for you regarding this:

when do you think the typical (bad) player plays better, facing one bet or two?

[/ QUOTE ]

Button probabily has two overs and could well be getting odds to call, you want to knock him out.
A call by button here is probabily correct.
it's a trade off between the extra money in the pot and improving your equity.

[Guruman]

Here’s an example in a threehanded game vs an abc tag who’se a little on the weak/tight side.

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 73276103
$3/$6 Texas Hold'em (Split Limit) - 22:21:00 21/11/2006 ET
Table 'Routine (6 Max)', 6 seats max, Real money
Seat 3 is the button. Small Blind $1, Big Blind $3

Player 1: Small Blind ($1)
ThGuruman: Big Blind ($3)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to ThGuruman: [Qs, 7d]
Player 3: <font color="red">raise</font> ($6)
Player 1: <font color="gray">fold</font>
ThGuruman: <font color="green">call</font> ($3)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [6d, Kd, Ac]
ThGuruman: <font color="red">bet</font> ($3)
Player 3: <font color="gray">fold</font>