you be the floor

[psandman]

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ill make a comment or two to these players but they never seem to understand that they are hiding their cards and why this is wrong.

best way to handle in the future?

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Just tell her that if she does not act on her hands and there is significant action behind her, her action will default to a check if there is no bet, and a fold if there was a bet.

Edit to keep this on topic: The OP made it clear that BB did not do this intentionally. The error was with the dealer and perhaps also the CO. The BB should not be penalized.

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While fault lies with the dealer, here I'm not entirely buying that the BB was blameless. I will accept that the BB was intentionally covering hiding his cards, but that does not absolve him of blame. Blame accrues to the negligent as well. Further he compounds the problem by not saying a word while the CO exposes his cards the Dealer gathers the cards together and brings in the blinds and pushes the pot to CO. Come on there has to be some blame there as well.

[psandman]

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If it went down as you said it is such a clear angle shot.

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Even if he isn't a newb, how can this be an angle shot? He has his big blind sitting in front of him and he has done nothing in the hand so far. Why does everyone think it takes more than 5 seconds for a hand to be flipped up and mucked and a pot to be pushed? BB is the big blind. He has the right to act last and everyone at the table should know that. His cards should be visible but there are many people that partially obscure their cards with their hands or their chips without any intention of hiding them -- particularly when they are the BB and have not yet acted preflop!

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5 seconds is a long time. How many of those seconds would it have taken for the player to say "HEY!!!! I HAVE CARDS"

[AngusThermopyle]

Hand over. CO keeps the chips.
Nice that he spoke up before the next hand was being dealt.
Needing to call 4BB, I doubt he had a hand to call, let alone beat QQ, otherwise he would have spoken up sooner.

[bwana devil]

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best way to handle in the future?

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Just tell her that if she does not act on her hands and there is significant action behind her, her action will default to a check if there is no bet, and a fold if there was a bet.


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suppose play is on the turn and youre second to act. it's checked to you and you believe there are three of you in the pot. you have a weak hand but decide to bet trying to take the pot right then. next player folds. sweet. just as planned so far.

then out of nowhere guy w/ his hands in front of himself raises. wtf! he was completely covering his cards! you would have checked if you had known it was four handed and there were two players to act after you rather than one.

how do you handle this during the hand? after the hand?

bwana

[youtalkfunny]

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I think it is the dealer's responsibility to know where...

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Another reply starts:

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While fault lies with the dealer...

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You guys need to lose this mind set. THE DEALER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE TO PROTECT THE BB'S ACTION. That responsibility lies squarely on the BB.

Think of the dealer as your flunky. He'll TRY to help you with this, but if it goes wrong, you have no one to blame but yourself.

The dealer is responsible for about 20 things at once. It's not asking too much for you to assume the responsibility to protect your own cards, and your own action.

Especially in this day and age, where it seems like the majority of dealers have been introduced to poker in the last few days. These dealers truly ARE the flunkies, and if you're depending on them to protect you, you deserve whatever you get.

So sack up, be a man, and if you fail to protect your action, admit it, and take the consequences like a man. Don't act like a 5-year-old, pointing fingers and insisting, "It's not my fault!"

[TMTTR]

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You guys need to lose this mind set. THE DEALER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE TO PROTECT THE BB'S ACTION. That responsibility lies squarely on the BB.


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As a player, you can protect your hand -- you can't always protect your action. The dealer controls the action and should know where the action is at all times. The dealer pulls cards into the muck and pushes the pot. The dealer knows who the BB is and should therefore know who has not acted AT LEAST PREFLOP if not always. BB protected his hand -- although probably protected it a little too well if it was not clearly visible -- and thereby protected his action. Conspiracy theorists can yell ANGLE SHOOT here but it doesn't look that way at all.

[BKyef]

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Even if he isn't a newb, how can this be an angle shot? He has his big blind sitting in front of him and he has done nothing in the hand so far. Why does everyone think it takes more than 5 seconds for a hand to be flipped up and mucked and a pot to be pushed? BB is the big blind. He has the right to act last and everyone at the table should know that. His cards should be visible but there are many people that partially obscure their cards with their hands or their chips without any intention of hiding them -- particularly when they are the BB and have not yet acted preflop!

[/ QUOTE ]

From the OP:

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The BB says nothing as the dealer collects all the cards, places them face down in the muck and then pushes the pot to the C/O.

As the C/O begins stacking his chips the BB finally says something. "Hey I still have cards here".

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The way it was written it sounds like a lot more than 5 seconds and a mistake. It came accross to me as someone sitting there twiddling there thumbs waiting to reveal their wonderful tactic.

[BKyef]

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As a player, you can protect your hand -- you can't always protect your action.

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Sorry, just as it is the players responsibility to protect their hand it is also their responsiblity to protect their action. If you're not paying attention, or you are and are just being cute by letting everyone behind you act before saying something it is your own fault. Most rulebooks will remove your right to act due to this type of negligence.

[TMTTR]

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As a player, you can protect your hand -- you can't always protect your action.

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Sorry, just as it is the players responsibility to protect their hand it is also their responsiblity to protect their action. If you're not paying attention, or you are and are just being cute by letting everyone behind you act before saying something it is your own fault. Most rulebooks will remove your right to act due to this type of negligence.

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Absolutely -- but there is no one to act behind our newb...

Regarding your other response -- I saw OPs description as trying to influence people's opinion. I really can't see it happening as slowly as he makes it sound.

[BKyef]

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As a player, you can protect your hand -- you can't always protect your action.

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Sorry, just as it is the players responsibility to protect their hand it is also their responsiblity to protect their action. If you're not paying attention, or you are and are just being cute by letting everyone behind you act before saying something it is your own fault. Most rulebooks will remove your right to act due to this type of negligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely -- but there is no one to act behind our newb...

Regarding your other response -- I saw OPs description as trying to influence people's opinion. I really can't see it happening as slowly as he makes it sound.

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That was my problem with the OP. He makes it sound initially like a total angle shot. Then comes out later and says it clearly wasn't intentional and he was a newb.

And as far as speed have you seen some of these dealers these days??