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#11
11-11-2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE
[ QUOTE ]
Read on the villian is that he is garbage, will play any 4...The villian has me covered...I have about $230 in front of me, villian about $500...The other person in the pot is a short stack around $80-100 or so... There were 4 limpers and I pot it in the BB with AcAs2d6c...I get 2 callers of my raise and we see a flop of 9c 8x 5c I feel that my draw to the nut flush and nut low (with back up 6 if a 2 hits) is enough for me to try to force out the competition so I pot it (~$45) and not only do I get one but I get both of them calling...Now I have about $170 behind and villian has me covered, short stack is almost all in... Turn BRICK CITY: Kx (club flush draw is still the only one out there)... Now what do you do here? Check? Block Bet? Bet Pot? Is your draw here still significant enough to go all the way with??? This is where I end up getting myself in trouble when I play these kinda hands out of position (and against opponents who'll play any [censored] 4 cards)...If I were in position I would check and hope a high club came and then get all my money in on the river...But here I pretty much know that I am probably beat here and the most likely holding is a straight...(Ran the 2 dimes and I was a 61:39 dog against a straight)... I checked and the villian pushed and I thought that my draw (with the dead money in the pot) was worth committing the rest of my stack with...Since I called I probably shoulda just pushed, but do people here lay that down? The pot at this point is laying me in excess of 2:1 which is more than I need to call here... The problem I face sometimes is playing the game thru the EV calcs that I do in my head and putting my money in sometimes when I maybe shouldn't be... Any help would be greatly appreciated... [/ QUOTE ] Keep betting. Play berserk. Push this hand because its marginal when you are behind but way ahead when you are ahead. Keep people thinking the next time you push you might be on the come or might be pushing with only one pair. Foot on the gas! And to the responder who checks with AA2 in the blinds, ewww. And I don't see anything remotely wrong with how you played the hand--You aren't particularly afraid of giving away a free gutshot card because it completes your low and might be a flush, you aren't particularly afraid of the board pairing because that often helps you more than it hurts you, and you don't have enough behind that going broke is a huge disaster. This check is a trap--You went them to go all-in and you can't wait to get your money in. When you are behind, you typically aren't behind by much and if they have a the straight you still have a ton of equity, and you are going to trap idiot drawing close to dead here a lot too. If you check it to people with A3 and a worse club draw, you will get them here. 
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#12
11-11-2006, 05:27 PM
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Re: PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE
Yeah the check on the turn was stupid...Like I said earlier, I ALWAYS take the stance that if I'm calling I might as well bet...I just stupidly froze because I was almost dead certain that he had a straight and I didn't think I had enough of a hand to call his all in with, but after thought I realized I couldn't have been in that bad of a position...I agree with you since I wasn't hugely deep I needed to just keep pushing this one and go broke if I don't hit my huge draw...This hand just happened to occur on "one of those nites" where I was having huge draws and not having them hit or blanking on everything...Just one o' those days...If we were both deeper ($1000+), I think check-calling here and then pushing on a good river would be the play...
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#13
11-11-2006, 11:42 PM
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Re: PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE
I push this draw on the turn every time.
LO Outs 4-thress 4-fours 4-fives 3-sixes 4-sevens Plus 9 flush outs. This is more than enough to push with. If he calls you're getting 2-1, plus you have fold equity. I understand your frustration though, I've checked in this spot too. Its hard when there's that much money involved.
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#14
11-11-2006, 11:55 PM
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Re: PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE
check/calling when you're unsure is a horrible poker play in any form of poker. As you said, you absolutely have to push all in first if thats your plan.
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#15
11-12-2006, 12:05 AM
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Re: PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah the check on the turn was stupid...Like I said earlier, I ALWAYS take the stance that if I'm calling I might as well bet...I just stupidly froze because I was almost dead certain that he had a straight and I didn't think I had enough of a hand to call his all in with, but after thought I realized I couldn't have been in that bad of a position...I agree with you since I wasn't hugely deep I needed to just keep pushing this one and go broke if I don't hit my huge draw...This hand just happened to occur on "one of those nites" where I was having huge draws and not having them hit or blanking on everything...Just one o' those days...If we were both deeper ($1000+), I think check-calling here and then pushing on a good river would be the play... [/ QUOTE ] I don't think the check on the turn was stupid, but I think it was stupid as a scared bet. I think it's actually generally a great spot to check to induce a bad bet. It's not a situation of "you are calling so you might as well push", its a situation of "hmm I could check here and he'll make a mistake and bet the hand for me that he would have folded if i bet the pot myself". The reason is because your backup outs are so strong vs his made hands. If he has a made hand and you push he's calling anyways; by checking you pick off a lot of bluffs. People with top pair will but you on the low draw and try to knock you off, but you have the back up draws to beat the current nuts as well as having a lot of hands beat, and tons of outs vs two pair etc. I really think checking is ok, but you have to understand why.
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