PLO8 $200 - BIG OUT OF POSITION MISTAKE

Omaha8sPoker · #1 11-08-2006, 04:01 AM

Read on the villian is that he is garbage, will play any 4...The villian has me covered...I have about $230 in front of me, villian about $500...The other person in the pot is a short stack around $80-100 or so...

There were 4 limpers and I pot it in the BB with AcAs2d6c...I get 2 callers of my raise and we see a flop of

9c 8x 5c

I feel that my draw to the nut flush and nut low (with back up 6 if a 2 hits) is enough for me to try to force out the competition so I pot it (~$45) and not only do I get one but I get both of them calling...Now I have about $170 behind and villian has me covered, short stack is almost all in...

Turn BRICK CITY: Kx (club flush draw is still the only one out there)...

Now what do you do here? Check? Block Bet? Bet Pot? Is your draw here still significant enough to go all the way with???

This is where I end up getting myself in trouble when I play these kinda hands out of position (and against opponents who'll play any [censored] 4 cards)...If I were in position I would check and hope a high club came and then get all my money in on the river...But here I pretty much know that I am probably beat here and the most likely holding is a straight...(Ran the 2 dimes and I was a 61:39 dog against a straight)...

I checked and the villian pushed and I thought that my draw (with the dead money in the pot) was worth committing the rest of my stack with...Since I called I probably shoulda just pushed, but do people here lay that down? The pot at this point is laying me in excess of 2:1 which is more than I need to call here...

The problem I face sometimes is playing the game thru the EV calcs that I do in my head and putting my money in sometimes when I maybe shouldn't be...

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Split Suit · #2 11-08-2006, 05:44 AM

I dont know how the rest of u play AA2xs from the SB/BB, but unless its shorthanded, i generally check it. for quite a few reasons, a) very very hidden, b) still strong as hell, c) we are OOP with callingstations behind us, d) why build a pot that is probably only goin to get harded to play OOP?

(yes, i understand why we raise AAxx, esp AA2x, im just sayin, with conditions you mentioned, i dunno if im doin it. altho i understand the equity build from 8 random cards calling you. im interested myself to see what ppl say about it)

anyway...flop looks good. with the overpair, NFD, NLDwP, your a fav over just about every hand. turn, ick. this is where reads become very very important. how does the calling station react to weakness (your check)? if he will pot it no matter what if u check to him, then i wud suggest a pot pumper (pot is what...$180? and we have 170 back, so i like a $75 bet. for a few reasons, a) pot commits the idiot to the pot on the river with just about anything, and b) it gives us odds if villian pushes back at us on the turn. (we wud b gettin about 3.5:1 on our call, covering EE)) actually, just about all the time im goin to bet $75 unless villian will call with say K234, then i PSB.

as played, any reads on villian (timing tells? anything?)...i prob call on the turn. just bite the bullet and curse when i miss because thats been my month. o well..

interesting hand tho. hopefully some more ppl will respond

Fiasco · #3 11-08-2006, 06:03 AM

Depends a little bit on villains aggressiveness. I seriously doubt that youre up against the straight on the flop, who is just flat calling the nuts against a cont bet with a low draw on board? I think worst case youre up against set and low draw, but more likely youre up against two pair and low draw, possibly with some sort of straight possibilities.

Im probably potting the turn again. A blocking bet would be my second choice. Probably around $50-$75. I think checking is basically awful because youre gonna have to pay off when youre behind, and youre giving a free card when youre ahead.

Id like a little more on villain btw. Youve basically described how loose he is preflop, but nothing about how aggressive he is, or how he plays postflop. These are the sorts of things that Id be thinking about in this situation.

Omaha8sPoker · #4 11-08-2006, 09:10 AM

I would call the villian a weakish type player...He won't get too aggro without a hand if it's checked to him...He'll call the "bluff" continuation bet like I made and wouldn't raise without a monster draw, etc...I guess the case for that is that he did have a straight on the flop and he didn't repop it in my face...

Mano · #5 11-08-2006, 05:43 PM

Is villian very aggressive? If so, I like to try and check raise the flop and try and get all the money in when I have alot of equity. Not sure if this is the optimal line, but it's worked out ok for me.

T50_Omaha8 · #6 11-08-2006, 06:42 PM

I don't get what the big mistake was.

Not betting the turn? Raising preflop? Those arguments are more stylistic and are certainly not horrible mistakes. The pot is laying you more than 2:1 and I can think of no hand you should fold to, even if villian's cards were face up on the table. You obviously shouldn't fold, and once he bets it's moot who pushed the money in (ie it does not affect the results of the hand).

But the way you phrase the title implies that you botched the hand and lost accordingly--I'm not sure there was really anything you could have done, other than a $75 block bet, which would have saved you money when you didn't hit and but possibly lowered your payoffs when you did. Another thing that makes me iffy about a block is that if he has two pair and the board pairs on the river (even while counterfeiting him and giving you the high scoop) you'll still be forced to check even though you connected with your hidden outs, leaving him a great spot to take it down with a bluff.

However, in this exact instance, since he would be bluffing into a smallish side pot (with another player presumably all in), that's a little less likely. Still, you did nothing atrocious, besides maybe checking the turn, which probably doesn't affect the results too much (considering you're probably not too far off of even money with your monster draw no matter how much goes in the pot).

Omaha8sPoker · #7 11-08-2006, 10:45 PM

Thanks T50...I had a brainfart there...I usually like to bet all in if I'm gonna go that route rather than call...Calling is weak IMO and I would rather bet it just in case I have any fold equity...I just was wondering if I overplayed AA on the turn in this situation...I think without the flush draw it would be an obvious overplay, but I just can't see folding that hand even if I'm a dog which I won't ever be worse than 2:1...

T50_Omaha8 · #8 11-09-2006, 12:02 AM

What was the showdown, out of curiousity?

Omaha8sPoker · #9 11-09-2006, 03:54 AM

He flopped the straight...Had some crap like 776x unsooted...I can't remember what came on the river...It wasn't what i needed

blueodum · #10 11-09-2006, 05:10 PM

It's possible he flopped the straight and didn't raise on the flop because he's waiting to see if the flush card comes on the turn. If no flush card comes, he pushes, if it does he probably dumps the hand.

Check and then call if he bets: you still have enough equity with your high and low draws.