PokerStars FPP discussion - Page 7

MatthewRyan · #61 11-10-2006, 11:43 PM

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If you're Supernova there's the $1500 for 100k FPPs.

[/ QUOTE ]but you can get a $3000 gift card for 180K which is a much better deal. As I said earlier, I understand why they would rather give out some items than cash because they probably buy them at a bulk discount. But for items from the concierge service they are all unique items, so theres no way they're getting any discount...why not just give $3000 for 180K?

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I believe us U.S. citizens get a nice tax break by getting gift cards instead of cash.

If a Supernova takes a $1500 bonus for 100,000 FPPs (and breaks even at poker while clearing it), then cashes out the $1500, I am pretty certain the $1500 is taxable income.

However, if the same Supernova gets a $3000 gift card to his favorite retailer for 180,000 FPPs, I think that gift card is tax free. As far as I know, it's treated the same way as frequent flier mile awards. The last I heard, the plane tickets you get for redeeming your frequent flier miles are not taxed. If a non-cash reward for an airline loyalty program is not taxed, wouldn't a non-cash reward for a poker site loyalty program also be not taxed?

I'm not a CPA -- but I did play one in a prior life. Current opinions on this issue would be appreciated.

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Ah, I totally overlooked that aspect. Great point.

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No, it's a crappy point. Income is income whether it's in the form of a stack of greenbacks or a gift card.

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a tax free gift card is a very good point actualy

Sniper · #62 11-10-2006, 11:51 PM

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Are you saying that you would indeed have to pay taxes upon a giftcard? If so, I think I may disagree with you. I mean, I've gotten several items from the Party store, and I've never paid taxes on them(I pay taxes on all of my winnings).

If you're saying that tax free income is no different than regular income, then I most definitely disagree with you.

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According to the IRS...

"Gambling winnings are fully taxable and must be reported on your tax return. You must file Form 1040 and include all of your winnings. Gambling income includes, but is not limited to, winnings from lotteries, raffles, horse races, and casinos. It includes cash winnings and also the fair market value of prizes such as cars and trips."

BigBluffer · #63 11-11-2006, 12:05 AM

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Are you saying that you would indeed have to pay taxes upon a giftcard? If so, I think I may disagree with you. I mean, I've gotten several items from the Party store, and I've never paid taxes on them(I pay taxes on all of my winnings).

If you're saying that tax free income is no different than regular income, then I most definitely disagree with you.

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According to the IRS...

"Gambling winnings are fully taxable and must be reported on your tax return. You must file Form 1040 and include all of your winnings. Gambling income includes, but is not limited to, winnings from lotteries, raffles, horse races, and casinos. It includes cash winnings and also the fair market value of prizes such as cars and trips."

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Like most things related to the tax law, the highlighted sentence seems to be subject to interpretation. Specifically, if I play a slot machine that has a top jackpot of a new car, and I win that car, then my new car is a DIRECT result of my gambling on that slot machine. Thus I am taxed on the fair market value of that car. However, if I earned enough points on my slot card while playing that machine to get a week of RFB at the hotel, then I would argue that that is NOT gambling winnings, but a loyalty reward similar to a free plane ticket on an airline's frequent flier club, or a free hotel night at a hotel's frequent guests club, or a free meal at a restaurant's frequent diner's club.

To me, the key is the car was a direct result of my gambling on the slot machine. I was gambling FOR the car. The RFB week was an incidental result and does not fall under the definition of gambling winnings.

The same logic would apply to poker winnings (taxable) vs. loyalty program rewards other than cash (nontaxable).

Are there any revenue rulings or court decisions on this point?

Sniper · #64 11-11-2006, 12:48 AM

Bluffer... bottom line, you should consult a tax professional ...

BigBluffer · #65 11-11-2006, 06:11 AM

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Bluffer... bottom line, you should consult a tax professional ...

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Excellent advice. I would amend that to suggest one should consult a tax professional experienced in the issues involved in gambling matters.

Assani Fisher · #66 11-11-2006, 12:40 PM

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Are you saying that you would indeed have to pay taxes upon a giftcard? If so, I think I may disagree with you. I mean, I've gotten several items from the Party store, and I've never paid taxes on them(I pay taxes on all of my winnings).

If you're saying that tax free income is no different than regular income, then I most definitely disagree with you.

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According to the IRS...

"Gambling winnings are fully taxable and must be reported on your tax return. You must file Form 1040 and include all of your winnings. Gambling income includes, but is not limited to, winnings from lotteries, raffles, horse races, and casinos. It includes cash winnings and also the fair market value of prizes such as cars and trips."

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Ok, technically yeah...but I would think that it'd be impossible for the IRS to ever know about you receiving a gift card, right?

rhwbullhead · #67 11-11-2006, 12:58 PM

The answer is simple. under the law you would have to pay taxes on any value you got for your points. the irs wants you to include the value of a comped meal and you think you wouldn't have to pay on a $3000 gift card? now, realistically they wouldn't find out, but under the law you are supposed to include it as income. yes, even on that ipod.

Dazarath · #68 11-11-2006, 01:00 PM

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Ok, technically yeah...but I would think that it'd be impossible for the IRS to ever know about you receiving a gift card, right?

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Lol, wow. The same thing goes with casino winnings (< 10k), or hell, even online poker winnings. Sure, it's easy to hid a few bucks from the IRS, but let's not turn this thread into a tax evasion thread. Whether you do that is your own business. I would like to discuss FPPs here.

Assani Fisher · #69 11-11-2006, 01:23 PM

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The answer is simple. under the law you would have to pay taxes on any value you got for your points. the irs wants you to include the value of a comped meal and you think you wouldn't have to pay on a $3000 gift card? now, realistically they wouldn't find out, but under the law you are supposed to include it as income. yes, even on that ipod.

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And the law also prohibits you from driving one mile over the speed limit.

Assani Fisher · #70 11-11-2006, 01:26 PM

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Ok, technically yeah...but I would think that it'd be impossible for the IRS to ever know about you receiving a gift card, right?

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Lol, wow. The same thing goes with casino winnings (< 10k), or hell, even online poker winnings. Sure, it's easy to hid a few bucks from the IRS, but let's not turn this thread into a tax evasion thread. Whether you do that is your own business. I would like to discuss FPPs here.

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This isn't about tax evasion. I personally pay my taxes every year on my poker income. However, I do definitely look for loopholes and ways to save a few bucks here and there.

A gift card is far different than cash in your bank account. You bank account is easily traceable, and anyone who wants to minimize risk most definitely should report all poker income that they withdraw into their bank account. Howver if Stars sends you a gift card and you use it, I see no way for anyone to ever know.