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#11
10-20-2006, 09:40 PM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing better than an American Muscle Car that gets 8 mph. [/ QUOTE ] I couldn't agree more. I never met a scientist that didn't love a well engineered car. Or even a poorly engineered but powerful muscle car. And I used to get drunk with the boys at NOAA and WHOI. Scientists like having toys too. Hell we build the biggest toys on the planet. At the same time we realize when it's time to move on to something better. And everyone I know agrees that time is now. 
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#12
10-20-2006, 09:44 PM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
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[ QUOTE ] I would just like to note that the automobile would never have been any kind of problem at all without massive government subsidization of the highway system. The state-funded highway system has all but killed rail shipment in favor of free or nearly free highway trucking, and massively subsidizes high pollution low mileage traffic congestion in and around cities. Urban commuters pay about 5% in gas taxes of the actual costs of the highway system, which massively subsidizes automobile usage in congested urban areas. This creates massive traffic jams and a resulting tremendous waste of fuel and far greater pollution than would otherwise occur. [/ QUOTE ] That's pretty close to the theme of the movie, The End of Suburbia, though its emphasis is more on the fuel consumption necessitated by suburban living -- a result of the suburbs having been enabled by the highway system. It may be a stretch, though, to say that without that, "the automobile would never have been any kind of problem at all." With continued exponential population growth here and in places like India and China, with their rising standards of living, I'd be surprised if auto emissions weren't a large problem even without a highway system of the sort we have. Even if we had been able to delay the problems now attributed to the automobile, with world population projected (albeit speculatively) to grow by at least another 40% (large PDF) over the next 70 years, it seems that, barring the development of alternatives, we'd sooner or later be dealing with environmental problems attributable to the automobile. [/ QUOTE ] It's only the externalization of costs and massive subsidization of urban and suburban automobile use that causes problems. And it's the prevention of cost internalization by government that prevents the market from addressing the problem (as much as it could).
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#13
10-21-2006, 12:42 AM
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I Get Around
[ QUOTE ]
Since fossil fuel emissions are destroying the atmosphere and thus the planet then I guess we'd have to say that the automobile was a disasterous invention wouldn't we? [/ QUOTE ]Even if the planer did not suffer chemically, directly, from the emissions and the residue, the use of fossily fuels as an energy source must be considered, in hindsight, as detrimental to the planet's health. The reason is that it provided us with a seemingly "easy" and plentiful source of energy, which contributed directly, along with our finding ways to deal with our little companions on this Earth, to the explosion in human population. Which constitutes a serious danger for the sustainability of the ecosystems of the planet as it is. Mickey Brausch
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#14
10-21-2006, 02:46 AM
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Re: I Get Around
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Since fossil fuel emissions are destroying the atmosphere and thus the planet then I guess we'd have to say that the automobile was a disasterous invention wouldn't we? [/ QUOTE ]Even if the planer did not suffer chemically, directly, from the emissions and the residue, the use of fossily fuels as an energy source must be considered, in hindsight, as detrimental to the planet's health. The reason is that it provided us with a seemingly "easy" and plentiful source of energy, which contributed directly, along with our finding ways to deal with our little companions on this Earth, to the explosion in human population. Which constitutes a serious danger for the sustainability of the ecosystems of the planet as it is. Mickey Brausch [/ QUOTE ] Humanity >>>>> "health" of the planet Oil = massive boon to humanity Oil = AWESOME. QEMFD.
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#15
10-21-2006, 02:57 AM
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Re: I Get Around
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Humanity >>>>> "health" of the planet [/ QUOTE ] What is the reason why we care about the 'health' of the planet? Disclaimer: I'm not making an anti oil post, or agreeing with oil=awesome.
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#16
10-21-2006, 04:57 AM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
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No you're still cool [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Apparently continued use of fossil fuel burning autos will be the downfall of mankind. I'm being serious about this btw. I guess auto's have been a great invention but mankind has reached the point where new technology is desparately needed. I couldn't imagine not having an automobile at my disposal therefore going back to a horse and buggy is unfathomable to me. [/ QUOTE ] C.A.F.E. is a joke. If special interests didn't hold so much water in this country we'd be looking at hybrids as old news by now. You hit the nail on the head, and yes, fossil burning vehicles were a great invention.
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#17
10-21-2006, 08:20 AM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
The main problem is human population growth. We need to start sterilizing poor people and ugly people so that they will stop overpopulating the planet. Less people = less pollution and a more healthy planet.
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#18
10-21-2006, 11:23 AM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
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The main problem is human population growth. We need to start sterilizing poor people and ugly people so that they will stop overpopulating the planet. Less people = less pollution and a more healthy planet. [/ QUOTE ] While this seems cruel, and evil it is problably the only way to save the human race.
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#19
10-21-2006, 03:36 PM
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Re: Fossil Fuel Burning Automobile, A Great Invention or Not?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The main problem is human population growth. We need to start sterilizing poor people and ugly people so that they will stop overpopulating the planet. Less people = less pollution and a more healthy planet. [/ QUOTE ] While this seems cruel, and evil it is problably the only way to save the human race. [/ QUOTE ] Oh for Christs sake! Does no one here read Julian Simon? Increasing population is the greatest boon to humanity ever! It's what allows massive human progress and development. We're all much richer today than 500 years ago precisely because of increasing population, not in spite of it.
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#20
10-21-2006, 03:50 PM
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Re: I Get Around
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Humanity >>>>> "health" of the planet [/ QUOTE ] What is the reason why we care about the 'health' of the planet? Disclaimer: I'm not making an anti oil post, or agreeing with oil=awesome. [/ QUOTE ] 'health' of the planet is important, because there is no alternative life-support system for us. Most of our food is grown in the soil. If soil is exhausted or polluted, less food is available. Most of our medicines are synthesized from plants. If rare plants go extinct, we will have less ways to discover medicines. If water is polluted, there is less clean water for us to drink. If air is polluted, there is no escape but breath in the pollution and get sick. If ecological systems are damaged or destroyed, deserts are created instead. It is very uncomfortable to live in deserts.
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