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| View Poll Results: Did you ever advice a friend or were advised on a play in a tournament? | |||
| Yes |
   
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10 | 76.92% |
| No, never |
  
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3 | 23.08% |
| Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#11
10-19-2006, 02:37 PM
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Re: Funky river decision
a draw just got there!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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#12
10-19-2006, 02:43 PM
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Re: Funky river decision
[ QUOTE ]
what happens when we bet the turn and villain POTS A NON DIAMOND RIVER????? [/ QUOTE ] Then you can consider FOLDING. I think a turn bet here is fine. People are going to be calling the flop with all kinds of junk and a backdoor diamond draw is definitely conceivable. And I think there are too many things that call us on the turn to give up the value here. On the river, I'm guessing that you've run into either a flush or something mildly zany, like A6. Could be a poorly played set or worse two pair, too. I think this is very close, but I would probably call here.
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#13
10-19-2006, 02:47 PM
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Re: Funky river decision
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] what happens when we bet the turn and villain POTS A NON DIAMOND RIVER????? [/ QUOTE ] Then you can consider FOLDING. I think a turn bet here is fine. People are going to be calling the flop with all kinds of junk and a backdoor diamond draw is definitely conceivable. And I think there are too many things that call us on the turn to give up the value here. On the river, I'm guessing that you've run into either a flush or something mildly zany, like A6. Could be a poorly played set or worse two pair, too. I think this is very close, but I would probably call here. [/ QUOTE ] if we were to consider folding here then if we check the turn and he pots river we can call for nearly the same price we were going to bet on the turn while still keeping the pot manageable with what may be the best hand
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#14
10-19-2006, 03:38 PM
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convo with The Grunch
wanted to talk it over with someone else who hasnt read any other responses, which is what grunding comes from and i know hed make an opinion based on reading just the OP.
so heres our convo GrunchCan: shoot The Machine 2p2: ok The Machine 2p2: link The Machine 2p2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...e=0#Post7726813 GrunchCan: let's see... The Machine 2p2: i think betting the turn is bad here only because it bloats the pot GrunchCan: i dont disagree. given the opponents stackk size, any reasonable turn bet will nearly commit him if he calls. he's going to be calling thin here and then either pushing or calling thin on the river. we have a showdown hand and I think we should be going for a small pot. check the turn, with the intention of calling many river bets GrunchCan: now lets see what everyone else said... The Machine 2p2: yes thats my exact though The Machine 2p2: thought* The Machine 2p2: everyone said to bet the turn because he could have a draw The Machine 2p2: which is possible given that hes a 50/17 The Machine 2p2: but i still think its spew because we make worse hands fold and better hands call GrunchCan: im not sure that many worse hands will fold since hes short. but those same worse hands will often give us a hard decision on the river when they push GrunchCan: and we're behind more often than not when he pushes the river The Machine 2p2: if we check the turn you mean or bet GrunchCan: as played when he bets the turn, we're behind most of the time The Machine 2p2: ohh yeah def GrunchCan: but we have to call because were not behind all the time. so our turn bet put us in a position where wre have to make a bad call on the end for all our chips GrunchCan: im not sure we can fold the river GrunchCan: i mean as played GrunchCan: were getting 3:1 after all, and a shortie could easily be making a desperate play for the pot The Machine 2p2: but i feel that with a hand that is as strong as ours why not check the turn and get basically the same price if villain were to PSB river The Machine 2p2: yeah it is 3:1 as played GrunchCan: i agree GrunchCan: the turn is the nexus of this hand GrunchCan: and i like checking the turn GrunchCan: and to all those saying "free draw! free draw!" I say, he has 9 outs, he's only getting there 18% of the time. letting him draw isnt so bad The Machine 2p2: exactly GrunchCan: moreover if we bet, i think we should push The Machine 2p2: push on the turn?? GrunchCan: ya The Machine 2p2: if he were to bet? GrunchCan: no i mean as played GrunchCan: hold on... The Machine 2p2: no villain open pushed river The Machine 2p2: c/c flop and turn and open pushed river GrunchCan: no i meant this; on the turn, check > push > bet less than push GrunchCan: but im not sure about pushing the turn The Machine 2p2: yeah check is def better The Machine 2p2: but isnt a push too much The Machine 2p2: its like double pot The Machine 2p2: so if we get called we should know were behind right? The Machine 2p2: i cant see many worse hands calling except maybe a worse 2 pair GrunchCan: no the shortie might easily call with just a naked diamond GrunchCan: and he would be very wrojng to, which is what makes pushing good GrunchCan: but im still not sure about pushing... GrunchCan: i know i have pushed in this spot before, even though it was a big overbet GrunchCan: but now i think of it, one of the reasons i do it is to cultivate my donkey lagtard image GrunchCan: if we take that aspect out of it, pushing is probably -EV The Machine 2p2: yeah i could see doing it where we might have villains who are aware and might note that you may be a donkey making crazy plays to set up yourself for later The Machine 2p2: which that logic is wasted at micro levels GrunchCan: actually, i dont think it is wasted, but thats a story for another show... GrunchCan: and the 2p2 advice is definitely to forget metagamme at the micros GrunchCan: and i wont try to dislodge that advice went on to a short rant about other topics but theres some more advice and reasoning behind checking the turn
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#15
10-19-2006, 03:42 PM
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Re: convo with The Grunch
you guys talk a lot.
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#17
10-19-2006, 06:01 PM
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Re: convo with The Grunch
Aight. In the actual hand, I called and he showed AQ with Ad.
The thing is, this is so remarkably like a AA hand I had earlier where people advocated me to bet even though essentially the strength against his range is around the same. If I had AA here on turn, say AsAh. Would checking still be better?
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